Re: Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
  • From: B* W* <1*@rewrite.hort.net>
  • Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 12:24:39 -0400
Maybe there is still another class?  The ones I've been calling summer can
bloom any time from June through first hard freeze, depending on weather and
rainfall.  Not your Whenever strain.  


<< Summer  rebloomers can only start
after their bud set 
temperatures,  so  when they rebloom here it is  mid
September or 
later. >>>




Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 5, 2014 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: [iris]
Re: classifying as a Rebloomer


They have  very different genes. Crossing
Whenever to summer rebloomers 
has  given me no rebloomers. Thus both  are
recessives, or involve 
cgene combinations which are not working together.
The whenever are   
multiple rebloomers, starting just after spring bloom, and
able to 
rebloom in  zone 3.  Ad Eternal summer to this group, a Spec-x from
Forever Blue.  Summer  rebloomers can only start after their bud set
temperatures,  so  when they rebloom here it is  mid September or 
later. With
the summe rwe had I have numerous  fall cyclic iris 
reblooming. Queen Dorothy
(summer rebloomer) is about to open in a few 
days, and there already have
been 15+ FC iris open. And all the 
whenever ones of course.

Chuck Chapman
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Wilkerson <101n@rewrite.hort.net>
To:
iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 5, 2014 1:02 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re:
classifying as a Rebloomer

Once again, what is the difference in the "summer
rebloom genes" and the
"Whenever bloom genes?"  Whenevers are just "your" SDB
rebloomers?  The
"forever blue" children?


<<These genes are  useless in
enabling  fall
cyclic rebloom genes, summer
 rebloom genes or the Whenever
bloom genes..>>
Sometimes the terms can get confusing.  Especially, when they
are not 
the
accepted terminology.  (by the judges training manuel. )


Betty
Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com




-----Original Message-----
From:
Chuck
Chapman <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Fri,
Oct
3, 2014 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
Coastal
rebloomer is being used  to refer to the warm climate
California
rebloomers,
that rebloom only in  areas with long growing
seasons.  I call
them
"Facilitative vernalization" bloomers. Meaning
that they  bloom better
when
they have a cold period, but when they
don't, they will bloom after about
5
months of growth after  bud set.
So if you don't get this long   growing
season, they don't  "rebloom".
These genes are  useless in enabling  fall
cyclic rebloom genes, summer
 rebloom genes or the Whenever  bloom genes..
Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Griffin Crump
<70cb46c31@rewrite.hort.net>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014
1:21 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer

Chuck  --  I
haven't been following this discussion closely.  What do
you
mean by a
"coastal" rebloomer?  --  Griff

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck
Chapman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 9:57 AM
To: iris@hort.net
Subject: Re:
[iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer

Any examples of   rebloomers that can
be attributed to crosses with
coastal or occasional rebloomers?

Based on what
I know of genetics of rebloomers, I can't see any
benefits. And possible
deficits from bring in tender  coastal genes.

Rare events based on misfiring
of bloom genes  in response to rare
growing conditions will not add anything
beneficial to gene pool
information. It will not give any information to aid
breeding.

You need basic rebloom genes plus good secondary characteristics,
which
include  plant hardiness in  many climates. Good performance in coastal
areas doesn't translate into anything useful for harder climates..


Chuck
Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Wilkerson
<101n@rewrite.hort.net>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 9:38
am
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer

Maybe it depends on the
goal?


If your goal is to collect irises that will
have a GOOD chance of
reblooming in your yard, then it would be
advisable to
collect those that
rebloom, on a regular basis, in YOUR area.  Learn
from
local gardeners. If
none exist, you can learn by careful use of the
checklist.
If your goal is to
improve or diversify the rebloom class, through
breeding,
perhaps you might
want to venture a bit beyond the default rebloomers.
??  An
occasional
outcross to coastal rebloomers of stellar growth habits
might be of
benefit.
I
work specifically with tall bearded irises and I'm a bit
too old
to begin
with
inter class crosses etc.






<<Once in 20, of no
value,
except to be
used as
misleading information from the "Spring
Gardens " of the
world. And
you can
bet that they will use it.>>





Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman
<db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Thu, Oct 2, 2014
8:16 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer


For those people
who have  iris that rebloom  regularly for them, they
report. And then
information  is properly recorded.   And expectations
of   various  rebloom
in
various zones  can be relied on. Once in 20
years in zone 4 is not
information
that can be counted on.

When you check  the "rebloom" iris
offered by Spring
Garden and ilk,
you find that they have used  rebloom
information from list ,
sometime
along the process. When checking out some of
their listing I found
information such as one rebloomer sold in Canada was
recorded as a one
time
event, of rebloom in Australia.  No other rebloom
reported.  This
iris (along
with many other on their list) will never rebloom
in
Canada. Some don't even
make it through first year.   Many  people by
these collections,   both in
Canada and USA.  When they don't have
rebloom
they then can  give up on
rebloomers.  Several such  comments
on "Iris
lovers" recently are very likely
from this sort of practice.

So  a "once off"
rebloom from  one iris in one
location, when reported
as a reblooming iris
can have unwanted effects.  Even
if it is  once
every three years , it gives
useful information.  Once in 20,
of no
value, except to be used as misleading
information from the "Spring
Gardens " of the world. And you can bet that
they will use it.

Chuck Chapman
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty
Wilkerson <101n@rewrite.hort.net>
To:
iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Thu, Oct 2,
2014 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re:
classifying as a Rebloomer

May be a
matter of neuances, but . . . just
because something doesn't
rebloom
in your
yard doesn't mean they aren't
rebloomers.   My opinion.
'Forever
Blue'
doesn't rebloom here, but I don't
question that it is a rebloomer
. . .
for
you and others.



<<A once off
event  of rebloom is exciting, and
worth
noting , but
doesn't make that plant
a rebloomer for  me.  I have over
the
years
have had a good number of  oncers
put up an out of season or even
twice
a year bloom. these things can and do
happen. <<<<


Doesn't make it a
rebloomer  as far as I'm concerned.>>
'Victoria Falls' did fall bloom for me
in Alvaton, in the 90's.  It grew over
40 inches tall and I quit
counting at
18 buds.  Don't think it has done this
since.  It's my opinion that
it's been
proven to be a plus when breeding
rebloomers.  It contributed height,
branching and improved flower form.  Maybe
there was another path?
Maybe
even
a better path, but nothing else has proven
to measure up.


Betty
Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Chuck
Chapman <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
To: iris
<iris@hort.net>
Sent: Thu,
Oct
2, 2014 7:16 am
Subject: [iris] Re:
classifying
as a Rebloomer


Bloom
triggers for plants are complicated, and
you can
occasionally get
misfires. A
number of years ago in our area some
apple trees
bloomed
in fall. But a once
off occurrence. Rebloom yes, but it
doesn't make
these apple trees
rebloomers.
Right now I have  Victoria Falls in
bloom, and
on a 50" stalk,
standing up
straight and tall. But the only time it
has fall
bloomed in
over
20 years of
growing it. I'm not going to send in a
rebloom
report
on it as it
is a once
off event. About 4 years ago I had a fall
bloom
on a clump of Best
Bet. Again
a  once off event as it also has done
this
once
in about 20 years.
I'm not
going to list them as rebloomers
for me in my
zone
4 garden. And
having them
listed as  zone 4
rebloomers would be
inaccurate and
deceptive.
Not a
behaviour you can
rely on.

On the other hand,
my SDB Juiced
Up is
reblooming
now on several
clumps. I first had rebloom on
Juiced Up about
2006, after
initial
bloom in 1998. It was interesting, but
even if it had a
rebloom
parent,
that still didn't make it a rebloomer. But in
the past  four
years it
has rebloomed  three times. I'll now report it as a
rebloomer for my
climate
zone.

A once off event  of rebloom is exciting, and
worth noting ,
but
doesn't make that plant a rebloomer for  me.  I have over
the years
have
had a
good number of  oncers put up an out of season or even
twice
a
year
bloom.
these things can and do happen. Doesn't make it a
rebloomer  as
far as
I'm
concerned.

Chuck Chapman
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