thanks Sean for the info. I really would like aspecimen or two of A. montereyensis, because it has a character fitting for a japanese style garden ( my garden is in that style) . It also is one of the prettiest and lively of the shrubs native here. My second favorite is the Coffeberry (Rhamnus californica) its berries do have an aftertaste reminiscent of coffee. Does A. montereyensis root from cuttings or do i have to either buy one or get seeds? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------- "Its like trying to touch the sky but over look the sun........Can you feel the beat?" ---------------------Lisa Lisa and the Cult Jam with Full Force---------------------------