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Re: poisonous flowers

At 10:00 AM +1000 23/10/98, Sean A. O'Hara wrote:
>At 03:29 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Holly Forbes wrote:
>>In answer to the question below about the poisonous properties of Sambucus,
Toxic part:  roots, bark, stems, leaves
yes but not flowers. I read Maude Grieve available on the net by the way
(full text)
who also warns of the poisionous bits. Something I was not aware of_ thanks
In Australia we rarely see the true English?European Elderberry Sambucus
nigr but Canadian/American Elder Sambucus canadensis is common
I too have drunk wine from latters berries and flowers

>I've always understood that the Red Elderberry, Sambucus nigra, of which
>there are various ornamental varieties in cultivation, has poisonous
>berries, whereas the Blue Elderberry was OK to eat (apparently after
>being cooked!).  Again, this discussion points out the importance of
>knowing what plant you are talking about.
Yes
 I have always been surprized
>that herbal folk never seem particularly concerned about the true
>botanical identity of the plant at hand.
Sorry Sean, That is not true. Herbal companies and pharmacopoeias and
government regulators go to a lot of trouble to ensure mainstream medicinal
plants are correct and contain adequate active ingredients. Evidence your
wonderful  American Botanical Council for example. They recently translated
and printed the German Commission E Monographs ( which set me back
($200US). ( They do an excellent quarterly magazine too)
 Our own Oz regulating body has stringent regulations on herbs and just
took an American /US  company to task about skullcap. The botany of this
American herb is very poor. Herbal medicines often cannot rely on botany
alone because it is such an inexact and incomplete science. All sorts of
analytical procedures are used. Poisonous herbs like hemlock are not used
in botanical medicine and are usually not allowed to be used (Homoeopathy
is not herbal medicine in my view).
What does surprise me is the lack of botanical/plant knowledge of many
practicing herbalists (I am NOT one just a dabbler). They seem to get most
of their plants  for their patients from a bottle or tablet.

This is not to say there are not problems.  Herbal medicines from
underdeveloped countries like China are often a worry. However these
countries have no hope of affording our western medicine (As the UN's WHO
has acknowledged for some years).Herbalists should always be guided by the
Greek maxim "Above all else do no harm". So too should conventional
medicine but it kills a lot more people in a year than herbalists ever will
in a millennium (See "Green Pharmacy" by Griggs  and Lynn Payer's "Medicine
and Culture" )
I wish I could continue this argument over a bottle of red. Email is so
impersonal and confronting. It will probably start the next war
I have appended a little info sheet on  Elder. I use Mac- it is in word 4.
The DOS people may heve translation problems

Fact_sheet_Elder.doc

Michael Bailes.
Herbarist
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culinary, medicinal, folklore, literature, ethnobotany, pharmacy,
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