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Re: planting preparation

Jef has provided some excellent recommendations!  I would like
to add a few that will improve the performance of the
"burndown" herbicide treatments.  There has been some really
good information developed by the University of Illinois to
provide farmers with guidelines to effectively control
introduced, perennial cool season grass species for farmers
planning to do no-till grain production on former Conservation
Reserve Program acreage.  U of I researchers have found that
the most complete control of these species with translocating
herbicides is dependent on growth stage of the plants.  The
strategy is to get as much herbicide to the root systems. 
Temperature is very important because you want active growth. 
Air temperature fluctuates where soil temperature is more
stable.  It was found that tall fescue, orchard grass and
redtop get hammered most when there is 8-10 inches of new
spring growth and the 4 inch soil temperature is 60 degrees or
greater.  Smooth bromegrass, bluegrass, and timothy need the
8-10 inches of growth and 4 inch soil temps at 70 degrees. 
The use of 17 lbs. of ammonium sulfate per 100 gallons of
spray solution is really becoming a standard recommendation
for Roundup.  This herbicide is inhibited by hard water
cations.  This additive also enhances herbicide movement into
the plant cells.  Ammonium sulfate is better than the other
nitrogen fertilizers when there is a lot of calcium in the
water.  If the water has a lot of iron then citric acid is the
best additive.  Roundup is applied in 10-20 gallons per acre
of carrier volume.  Performance is better at the lower end of
this range.

Brett Roberts
State Conservation Agronomist
NRCS-Illinois
"PrairieSource.com" wrote:
> 
> Good point about rate. All the information is on the label and if one
> follows the label directions, explicitly, it works well.
> 
> I don't know the specifics about your growers who lost their entire
> plantings but I can say from my personal experiences, those planting that I
> have investigated that were failures after using Plateau, in every situation
> the grower used the product off label. Meaning they didn't read the label
> and ended up using it without following the instructions.
> 
> I generally use from 4 to 12 ounces per acre depending upon what I am trying
> to achieve, what is being planted, soil type and weed pressure. Four ounces
> per acre provides reasonable control of foxtail and crabgrass for about 6 to
> 8 weeks, usually enough to get the native grasses up and going enough to be
> competitive.
> 
> One important point. Never use more than four ounces per acre if planting
> with labeled, I emphasize labeled, forbs.
> 
> I usually use 6 to 8 ounces per acre for most of my plantings. Six to 8
> ounces provides good weed control for about 8 weeks to allow the grasses to
> get well established. There will be some weeds come through late in the
> season but by then the grasses are well established and very competitive.
> The weeds provide good cover and food sources for wildlife and I believe the
> weeds help protect the new seedlings crowns through the winter. Many of the
> labeled forbs will grow through 6 ounces.
> 
> 10 to 12 ounces are used for total weed control. At these rates the natve
> grasses are growth inhibited for 6 weeks or better and at first you will
> think you have made a mistake. However, once the herbicide is metabolized
> and growth is no longer inhibited, look out. You will be very, very
> impressed. I have documented up to 18 inches of growth per week in late July
> and August. Do not expect to use 10 to 12 ounces per acre and have any
> planted forbs do well at all. Some plants will grow through the higher
> rates, but very few.
> 
> Plateau works very well with Roundup as a burndown with some residual weed
> control. If using the tank mix only as a burndown the two are synergistic
> and will do a better job of killing the sod or weeds than either alone.
> Lower rates of Plateau can be used in these scenarios if you have a concern
> about injury to forbs. I recommend and use 4 ounces of Plateau plus 1 quart
> of Roundup Ultra per acre.
> 
> If wanting to do a restoration, which includes many forbs not on Plateau's
> label, try the following. I have done this for 3 years now and had great
> success. Plant Plateau tolerant grasses and forbs in the spring. Follow that
> by introducing the non-tolerant species that fall. Plateau's soil activity
> only lasts from 90 to 120 days depending upon rate and weather. Cool moist
> weather prolongs it's activity, warm moist weather decreases it's activity
> quicker.
> 
> Some general rules:
> 1.    On light soils and/or light weed pressure use lower rates.
> 2.    On alkaline soils never use more than 4 ounces per acre, 2 or 3 is
> preffered.
> 3.    On heavy soils and/or heavy weed pressure use higher rates.
> 4.    Never use more than 4 ounces per acre when planting with forbs
> unless injury or reduced germination can be tolerated.
> 5.    Never, ever, ever, never use Plateau with an organo-phosphate
> insecticide.
> 6.    If you don't use Plateau as a pre-emergent, wait until grasses are
> at least 3 inches tall and forbs are past the 3 leaf stage before
> using as a post emergent.
> 7.    Use the recommended surfactants. Point in case, crop oil is not
> methylated seed oil (MSO). MSO should only be used as a pre-
> emerge for initial burn down of sod or if the planting is in jeopardy
> and the weeds form a complete canopy over the seedlings.
> Otherwise, use a non-ionic or silicone based surfactant.
> 
> I will admit, there is a learning curve with using Plateau, however with the
> success I've had it's been worth learning. I don't think it is that much
> different with any other herbicide though, Roundup being the exception.
> Plateau is not the panacea for native grass and forb establishment, but it
> sure cuts out a cuple of years of waiting when used by the label and in
> certain circumstances. It's just one more tool for the tool box.
> 
> By the way, I don't want to mislead anyone. I do sell Plateau herbicide.
> However that is not why I am touting it's praises. I started using it and
> found it to be such a great tool I thought it would be important to be able
> to make it available to others wanting to advance native grasses and forbs.
> 
> Jef Hodges
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carl Kurtz <cpkurtz@netins.net>
> To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 7:36 AM
> Subject: Re: planting preparation
> 
> > Jef-what is the rate of Plateau which you are using per acre on new
> > plantings.  Because it is in ounces per acre, the amount is very critical.
> > I have talked to other growers who have lost entire plantings because of
> > Plateau application.
> >
> > Carl Kurtz
> > Central Iowa
> > cpkurtz@netins.net
> > ----------
> > >From: "PrairieSource.com" <jef@prairiesource.com>
> > >To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> > >Subject: Re: planting preparation
> > >Date: Mon, Apr 24, 2000, 7:51 AM
> > >
> >
> > >I've been reading this thread on advice for planting and not seen anyone
> > >mention the use of Plateau herbicide, though Roundup has been mentioned
> > >freely. I've been using Plateau for 4 years now and can boast that I can
> > >establish native grass stands in one growing season with the weed control
> > >offered by this product. (Provided the weather cooporates)
> > >
> > >I particularly like a tank mix of Plateau and Roundup. Roundup provides
> burn
> > >down of the existing vegetation and Plateau provides some residual weed
> > >control. I've found, just enough weed control to allow the native grasses
> > >and labeled forbs a chance to get going before the weeds invade to rob
> the
> > >natives of their resources, water, light and nutrients.
> > >
> > >As most of you know, weed control is not the only factor in establishing
> a
> > >good stand. Seedbed preparation is important too. I belive it was Mike
> > >Anderson that made the all important point of removing the thatch or
> litter
> > >before planting. Critically important for successful no-till.
> > >
> > >Jef Hodges
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Robert Wernerehl <rwernere@midplains.net>
> > >To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:51 PM
> > >Subject: planting preparation
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi folks,
> > >>
> > >> I have a friend with a large field he wants to plant with a seed drill
> > >this
> > >> fall. He mowed and sprayed last fall and looks like he got a pretty
> good
> > >> kill. There is a thick layer of thatch on the field right now. He plans
> to
> > >> spray again this summer if it greens up. Is there any point in burning
> off
> > >> the duff now, perhaps that it would better expose what is left alive,
> so
> > >it
> > >> can be sprayed, or can it just wait until fall to burn it off before
> > >> planting? Any thoughts. Thanks much.
> > >>
> > >> Bob Wernerehl
> > >> Barneveld, Wisconsin
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >
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