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Re: planting preparation

This is for anyone, but perhaps especially for Jef Hodges, what are 
the ffects of Plateau on Buffalo grass. Could it be used, for 
example, to clean up a dandelion and fescue infested Buffalo grass 
lawn?
James T.

On 24 Apr 00 at 21:37, PrairieSource.com wrote:

> Good point about rate. All the information is on the label and if
> one follows the label directions, explicitly, it works well.
> 
> I don't know the specifics about your growers who lost their entire
> plantings but I can say from my personal experiences, those planting
> that I have investigated that were failures after using Plateau, in
> every situation the grower used the product off label. Meaning they
> didn't read the label and ended up using it without following the
> instructions.
> 
> I generally use from 4 to 12 ounces per acre depending upon what I
> am trying to achieve, what is being planted, soil type and weed
> pressure. Four ounces per acre provides reasonable control of
> foxtail and crabgrass for about 6 to 8 weeks, usually enough to get
> the native grasses up and going enough to be competitive.
> 
> One important point. Never use more than four ounces per acre if
> planting with labeled, I emphasize labeled, forbs.
> 
> I usually use 6 to 8 ounces per acre for most of my plantings. Six
> to 8 ounces provides good weed control for about 8 weeks to allow
> the grasses to get well established. There will be some weeds come
> through late in the season but by then the grasses are well
> established and very competitive. The weeds provide good cover and
> food sources for wildlife and I believe the weeds help protect the
> new seedlings crowns through the winter. Many of the labeled forbs
> will grow through 6 ounces.
> 
> 10 to 12 ounces are used for total weed control. At these rates the
> natve grasses are growth inhibited for 6 weeks or better and at
> first you will think you have made a mistake. However, once the
> herbicide is metabolized and growth is no longer inhibited, look
> out. You will be very, very impressed. I have documented up to 18
> inches of growth per week in late July and August. Do not expect to
> use 10 to 12 ounces per acre and have any planted forbs do well at
> all. Some plants will grow through the higher rates, but very few.
> 
> Plateau works very well with Roundup as a burndown with some
> residual weed control. If using the tank mix only as a burndown the
> two are synergistic and will do a better job of killing the sod or
> weeds than either alone. Lower rates of Plateau can be used in these
> scenarios if you have a concern about injury to forbs. I recommend
> and use 4 ounces of Plateau plus 1 quart of Roundup Ultra per acre.
> 
> If wanting to do a restoration, which includes many forbs not on
> Plateau's label, try the following. I have done this for 3 years now
> and had great success. Plant Plateau tolerant grasses and forbs in
> the spring. Follow that by introducing the non-tolerant species that
> fall. Plateau's soil activity only lasts from 90 to 120 days
> depending upon rate and weather. Cool moist weather prolongs it's
> activity, warm moist weather decreases it's activity quicker.
> 
> Some general rules:
> 1.    On light soils and/or light weed pressure use lower rates. 2. 
>   On alkaline soils never use more than 4 ounces per acre, 2 or 3 is
> preffered. 3.    On heavy soils and/or heavy weed pressure use
> higher rates. 4.    Never use more than 4 ounces per acre when
> planting with forbs unless injury or reduced germination can be
> tolerated. 5.    Never, ever, ever, never use Plateau with an
> organo-phosphate insecticide. 6.    If you don't use Plateau as a
> pre-emergent, wait until grasses are at least 3 inches tall and
> forbs are past the 3 leaf stage before using as a post emergent. 7. 
>   Use the recommended surfactants. Point in case, crop oil is not
> methylated seed oil (MSO). MSO should only be used as a pre- emerge
> for initial burn down of sod or if the planting is in jeopardy and
> the weeds form a complete canopy over the seedlings. Otherwise, use
> a non-ionic or silicone based surfactant.
> 
> I will admit, there is a learning curve with using Plateau, however
> with the success I've had it's been worth learning. I don't think it
> is that much different with any other herbicide though, Roundup
> being the exception. Plateau is not the panacea for native grass and
> forb establishment, but it sure cuts out a cuple of years of waiting
> when used by the label and in certain circumstances. It's just one
> more tool for the tool box.
> 
> By the way, I don't want to mislead anyone. I do sell Plateau
> herbicide. However that is not why I am touting it's praises. I
> started using it and found it to be such a great tool I thought it
> would be important to be able to make it available to others wanting
> to advance native grasses and forbs.
> 
> Jef Hodges
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carl Kurtz <cpkurtz@netins.net>
> To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 7:36 AM
> Subject: Re: planting preparation
> 
> 
> > Jef-what is the rate of Plateau which you are using per acre on new
> > plantings.  Because it is in ounces per acre, the amount is very critical.
> > I have talked to other growers who have lost entire plantings because of
> > Plateau application.
> >
> > Carl Kurtz
> > Central Iowa
> > cpkurtz@netins.net
> > ----------
> > >From: "PrairieSource.com" <jef@prairiesource.com>
> > >To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> > >Subject: Re: planting preparation
> > >Date: Mon, Apr 24, 2000, 7:51 AM
> > >
> >
> > >I've been reading this thread on advice for planting and not seen anyone
> > >mention the use of Plateau herbicide, though Roundup has been mentioned
> > >freely. I've been using Plateau for 4 years now and can boast that I can
> > >establish native grass stands in one growing season with the weed control
> > >offered by this product. (Provided the weather cooporates)
> > >
> > >I particularly like a tank mix of Plateau and Roundup. Roundup provides
> burn
> > >down of the existing vegetation and Plateau provides some residual weed
> > >control. I've found, just enough weed control to allow the native grasses
> > >and labeled forbs a chance to get going before the weeds invade to rob
> the
> > >natives of their resources, water, light and nutrients.
> > >
> > >As most of you know, weed control is not the only factor in establishing
> a
> > >good stand. Seedbed preparation is important too. I belive it was Mike
> > >Anderson that made the all important point of removing the thatch or
> litter
> > >before planting. Critically important for successful no-till.
> > >
> > >Jef Hodges
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Robert Wernerehl <rwernere@midplains.net>
> > >To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:51 PM
> > >Subject: planting preparation
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi folks,
> > >>
> > >> I have a friend with a large field he wants to plant with a seed drill
> > >this
> > >> fall. He mowed and sprayed last fall and looks like he got a pretty
> good
> > >> kill. There is a thick layer of thatch on the field right now. He plans
> to
> > >> spray again this summer if it greens up. Is there any point in burning
> off
> > >> the duff now, perhaps that it would better expose what is left alive,
> so
> > >it
> > >> can be sprayed, or can it just wait until fall to burn it off before
> > >> planting? Any thoughts. Thanks much.
> > >>
> > >> Bob Wernerehl
> > >> Barneveld, Wisconsin
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >
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