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RE: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item

Hello.

Regarding Mr. Crosby's remarks...

I would like to know how planting "controllable mixes" will help prevent malnutrition and chronic disease in the third world. It seems it would be better to preserve ecological diversity so we have genetic resources to fall back on in the event of climate change, which will occur with or without human contribution. Moreover, the "controllable mix" we select today and plant millions of acres of might not be suitable a century or even decade from now. We know that the native grasses of North American can withstand climate change, apparently migrating north or south with the climate over thousands of years.

I think Mr. Crosby should review basic geology and ecology. The ice ages did not wipe the continent clean and evolution start anew. What you see in North American is obviously much older that the last ice. I hate to state such a basic observation, but it apparently needs to brought to Mr. Crosby's attention.

Basic ecology? Yes, humans have been living here for thousands of years and have modified the environment. This has worked for the most part. But it does not mean the changes we imposed are a successful long-term strategy and a guide for future activity. I for one don't want to live happy go lucky oblivious to how I change the environment around me in ways that might make it impossible for me to continue living.

An aside... I sense Mr. Crosby lumps those who want to preserve biodiversity in with radical Earth First! and anti-GMO people. I happen to believe that biodiversity will be preserved by GMOs. Believe it or not, Mr. Crosby, I'm actively maintaining a small patch of grassland near my home, but I earn a living genetically engineering plants. And I believe both efforts will lead to a better future for the environment and humanity.

Have a nice day.

JAR


I don't think this has anything to do, even by analogy, with foreigners' and
elites' GMOs vs. the plight of the malnourished.
And, I don't think the science is so good in support of the positions stated
below by Lon Crosby:

A mix we can control, eh? Based on many earlier experiences with
introductions of exotics for their supposed benefits, (kudzu, sericea
lespedeza, bush honeysuckles, etc., etc., etc.), there is no reason to
assume that the "controllable" mix will be any such thing. Furthermore,
control implies management, just as the native community rehabilitiation
would require. So, just what, again, would be the benefit (other than
profits for Dunne and ilk) of using the "controllable" mix?

Your point about the current state of human ecology is well-taken, but I
must disagree on the matter of the age of the existing vegetation, in this
case, of the Great Plains. The extent and effects of glaciation in the GP
were far less than in our region. The steppe, or short grass vegetation
which is the one in question here, was resident, in a form palynologically
similar to the present version, before and throughout at least the last
major glacial event.

Bringing it closer to home, even in the tallgrass region, I'll take 15000
years of history over an unknown any untested entity, any day. And let us
not forget the even the tallgrass existed in some form (blacksoil prairies
or the like) in the Gulf Coast region through the glaciation, and arrived,
even if somewhat in disarray, essentially as an established community
(rather than a simple, "controllable" mix) when it migrated into the
devegetated, glaciated areas where it became dominant more recently.

Sorry. I'm not buyin' it!

James T.

[metaframe] -----Original Message-----
From: Lon Crosby [l*@starband.net]
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 9:34 PM
To: Inger Lamb; 'James Trager'; iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item



Whoa,

This is like the GM debate where your foreign friends are the educated well
fed "elite" from that country in the US studying for BS and advanced
degrees; and that is how you judge reality vs those foreigners eking out a
substance living and dealing on a daily basis with malnutrition and chronic
disease.

In this case, you have 100's of MILLIONS of acres that according to the
USDA, etc. ought to be burned every three years or every 10 years at worst
if a native prairie plant mixture (but not a prairie) is to be maintained.
If you can't define a reasonable burn plan, define the next best alternative
that is feasible. To do nothing means that the land will be taken over by
invasive species. Also remember:
1) basic geology. What you see in much of the US can't be older than the
last ice age.
2) basic ecology. We drained the swamps and changed the animals so you
could live here. In this context, WE represent humans living in this
environment for the last few thousand years.

So what do you want - garlic mustard, cheatgrass, etc. or some mix that you
control?

----- Original Message -----
From: Inger <i*@mchsi.com> Lamb
To: 'James Trager' <J*@mobot.org> ;
iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu <i*@list.uiowa.edu>

Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item


This link covers the comments made at the AAAS meeting in more depth,
unfortunately it's even more unbelievable than the summary in Nature. Note
Dunne is a seed producer-



http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2003/0214fire.shtml
<http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2003/0214fire.shtml>





-----Original Message-----
From: owner-iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu
<o*@list.uiowa.edu>
[o*@list.uiowa.edu] On Behalf Of James Trager
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 2:49 PM
To: 'iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu
<mailto:'iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu> '
Subject: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item



This link to a disturbing news item from "Nature Science Updates"
http://www.nature.com/nsu/030210/030210-20.html
<http://www.nature.com/nsu/030210/030210-20.html> Shows that the proponents of creating a homogeneous, low-diversity, and
tedious North American landscape are becoming threatened by the rising
interret in the replanting of native grasslands!

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