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Re: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item

RE: a worrisome news itemJames - Didn't ask you to buy anything. Only asked
for an implementable solution (technically and economically) to a huge
problem. The patient is in the ER on a gurney. Here, throwing up your hands
and doing nothing is a choice. Unfortunately, if you want either perfect
information and/or a perfect solution, the patient is going to die. What do
you propose doing?
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: James Trager
  To: 'iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu'
  Cc: 'prairie@hort.net'
  Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:40 AM
  Subject: RE: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item


  I don't think this has anything to do, even by analogy, with foreigners' and
elites' GMOs vs. the plight of the malnourished.
  And, I don't think the science is so good in support of the positions stated
below by Lon Crosby:

  A mix we can control, eh? Based on many earlier experiences with
introductions of exotics for their supposed benefits, (kudzu, sericea
lespedeza, bush honeysuckles, etc., etc., etc.), there is no reason to assume
that the "controllable" mix will be any such thing. Furthermore, control
implies management, just as the native community rehabilitiation would
require. So, just what, again, would be the benefit (other than profits for
Dunne and ilk) of using the "controllable" mix?

  Your point about the current state of human ecology is well-taken, but I
must disagree on the matter of the age of the existing vegetation, in this
case, of the Great Plains. The extent and effects of glaciation in the GP were
far less than in our region. The steppe, or short grass vegetation which is
the one in question here, was resident, in a form palynologically similar to
the present version, before and throughout at least the last major glacial
event.

  Bringing it closer to home, even in the tallgrass region, I'll take 15000
years of history over an unknown any untested entity, any day. And let us not
forget the even the tallgrass existed in some form (blacksoil prairies or the
like) in the Gulf Coast region through the glaciation, and arrived, even if
somewhat in disarray,  essentially as an established community (rather than a
simple, "controllable" mix) when it migrated into the devegetated, glaciated
areas where it became dominant more recently.

  Sorry. I'm not buyin' it!

  James T.

  [metaframe]  -----Original Message-----
  From: Lon Crosby [l*@starband.net]
  Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 9:34 PM
  To: Inger Lamb; 'James Trager'; iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu
  Subject: Re: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item


    Whoa,

    This is like the GM debate where your foreign friends are the educated
well fed "elite" from that country in the US studying for BS and advanced
degrees; and that is how you judge reality vs those foreigners eking out a
substance living and dealing on a daily basis with malnutrition and chronic
disease.

    In this case, you have 100's of MILLIONS of acres that according to the
USDA, etc. ought to be burned every three years or every 10 years at worst if
a native prairie plant mixture (but not a prairie) is to be maintained. If you
can't define a reasonable burn plan, define the next best alternative that is
feasible. To do nothing means that the land will be taken over by invasive
species. Also remember:
        1) basic geology. What you see in much of the US can't be older than
the last ice age.
        2) basic ecology. We drained the swamps and changed the animals so you
could live here. In this context, WE represent humans living in this
environment for the last few thousand years.

    So what do you want - garlic mustard, cheatgrass, etc. or some mix that
you control?
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Inger Lamb
      To: 'James Trager' ; iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu
      Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 7:39 PM
      Subject: RE: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item


      This link covers the comments made at the AAAS meeting in more depth,
unfortunately it's even more unbelievable than the summary in Nature.  Note
Dunne is a seed producer-



      http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2003/0214fire.shtml





      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu
[o*@list.uiowa.edu] On Behalf Of James Trager
      Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 2:49 PM
      To: 'iowa-native-plants@list.uiowa.edu '
      Subject: [iowa-native-plants] RE: a worrisome news item



      This link to a disturbing news item from "Nature Science Updates"
http://www.nature.com/nsu/030210/030210-20.html
      Shows that the proponents of creating a homogeneous, low-diversity, and
tedious North American landscape are becoming threatened by the rising
interret in the replanting of native grasslands!

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