RE: seeds from outside USA are still OK... I think

Thanks for everybody following up on this; below are the earlier replies
from the APHIS inspector at the VT/CAN border, I've removed insignificant
names, as well as the coversations between these replies to save space;
while the thread started out about someone importing a packet or so of seeds
thru traveling, he still talks about seeds regardless of amount, as well as
also by mail:

Posted by: barkeater Z3 VT (My Page) on Mon, Oct 20, 03 at 10:56

...yes, if you declare an agricultural item you cannot be fined. The worst
that can happen is the item is confiscated. 
All seed for planting, no matter what quantity, requires 2 things: 
1. A declaration of labeling, defined as "a written statement...giving...the
kind, variety, lot number, origin, and the use for which the seed is
intended". In addition, if the seed has been treated, it must be stated and
the chemical name shown, and include a statement that the seed is not to be
used for food, feed, or oil purposes. 
2. A phytosanitary certificate.(If from Canada, a seed analysis cert.can be
used instead) 

There are no exceptions to these 2 rules (unless you are a diplomat) 

 
Posted by: barkeater Z3 VT (My Page) on Mon, Oct 20, 03 at 15:41

It may sound over the line, ... but those are the exact regulations I
quoted. Luckily for that passenger, customs found the seeds and not
agriculture. Starting next year, customs and immigration will have the
authority to assess the fines I described above, which they cannot now but
are now being trained in their enforcement. 
I also know how serious the consequences can be of introducing foreign
seed-borne diseases. Most here can understand. But I've also read many posts
from those who don't care about the law, or think they know it all (and
don't), or would rather smuggle than pay for a phyto. 
 

Posted by: barkeater Z3 VT (My Page) on Tue, Oct 21, 03 at 9:56

... whatever "new regs" from 2001 you read about, if they were ever enacted,
are now the old regs. All the regs were changed after 9/11. Specifically,
effective 1/1/03, the seed regs I posted earlier are it. There are no
exceptions for small seed amounts anymore. 
In fact, starting sometime next year, travelers will require a phyto for ANY
agriculture item they bring back (or mail)to the U.S., whether it's a banana
from Ecuador, sausage from Germany, or a wooden statue from Africa. This
isn't USDA's doing, it's Homeland Security. In fact, part of the reason for
this, I suspect, is so they can get rid of ag inspectors and replace us with
more customs.  

<end pastes>

I don't know where fruit & vegetables, packaged seeds, gift seeds, etc come
into this, but the APHIS sheets if I remember correctly, said plants or
plant parts, and seeds are plant parts I think.

Still haven't received any further info from barkeater, as he hasn't replied
to that thread and can't access his e-mail address. So maybe some post
offices are doing something about it and some may just be overlooking it.
Has anybody received seeds back from Canada that look like the package was
opened, inspected, or stamped approved or anything similar? And has any of
the senders told the recipients when they sent them out, and how long did it
take to receive?

Thanks.
Mark



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pumpkins@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of
craig sandvik
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 9:23 AM
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: Re: seeds from outside USA are still OK... I think


toby, my wife was told that the new requirements would not be on the FDA
site UNTIL DEC 12 . until dec 12 everything is normal.  after dec12 you
apply for a number from the FDA and once you get your number you then put it
on to all seeds entering the us from canada. if you don,t have a number
AFTER DEC  12  your seeds get stopped at the border.      thanx   craig
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Toby Atencio" <mr-sprout@sbcglobal.net>
To: <pumpkins@hort.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 11:04 PM
Subject: seeds from outside USA are still OK... I think


> I just finished reading the "Fact Sheet" the FDA provides on the 
> internet
by following the link http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fsbtac13.html .  The
registration and notification policy the US is imposing on food
***importers*** is a response to terrorism attacks since 9-11, and looks to
me like a simple process...  Just let them know you're sending seeds within
five days of dropping them in the mail.  You can do it on-line, too.  I
didn't look at the form, though... could be 10 pages, could be 10 lines. But
the thing that I thought was interesting was the list of items that need to
be declared.  It seems to be a list of immediately edible foods.  Seeds have
to be grown into pumpkins before anything can be consumed.  Of course, we've
eaten pumpkin seeds before, but they were always prepared, first.  I copied
the list of items the FDA requires notice for.  It reads:
>
>
> "What food is subject to the requirement for submitting prior notice?
Prior notice applies to food for humans and other animals that is imported
or offered for import into the United States. For purposes of the interim
final rule, "food" is defined by reference to section 201(f) of the Federal
Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. Section 201(f) defines "food" as articles used
for food or drink for man or other animals, chewing gum, and articles used
for components of any such articles.
>
> Examples of "food" include:
>
>    Dietary supplements and dietary ingredients
>    Infant formula
>    Beverages (including alcoholic beverages and bottled water)
>    Fruits and vegetables
>    Fish and seafood
>    Dairy products and shell eggs
>    Raw agricultural commodities for use as food or components of food
>    Canned and frozen foods
>    Bakery goods, snack food, and candy (including chewing gum)
>    Live food animals
>    Animal feeds and pet food "
>
>
>
> As you can see, the definition of food leaves the pumpkin seeds in
question, since they are not used, nor prepared for the purpose of
consumption.  In my mind, the example that looks most like it would limit
seed mailing is the phrase "Raw agricultural commodities for use as food or
components of food," but I think that since they are not intended for food
at all, they don't qualify.  And the vague term "components of food" seems
to be descriptive of the ingredients stuff on our food labels, i.e.
monosodium glutamate, xanthan gum, etc.
>
> BUT WAIT... it gets more interesting.  the publication goes on (Notice
exclusion number 4 near the end of the following paragraph)...
>
> "What foods are excluded from the prior notice requirement? Foods that 
> are
excluded from the prior notice requirement are: (1) food carried by or
otherwise accompanying an individual arriving in the United States for that
individual's personal use (i.e., for consumption by themselves, family, or
friends, and not for sale or other distribution); (2) food that is exported
without leaving the port of arrival until export; (3) meat food products,
poultry products and egg products that are subject to the exclusive
jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) under the Federal
Meat Inspection Act, the Poultry Products Inspection Act, or the Egg
Products Inspection Act; and (4) food that was made by an individual in
his/her personal residence and sent by that individual as a personal gift
(i.e., for non-business reasons) to an individual in the United States. "
>
> So, even if the seeds are considered food, aren't we preparing them in 
> our
personal residences and sending them as personal gifts?  That would exclude
them from the requirement!
>
> Please don't take my word for it.  Follow the links and read it for
yourself.  Then print out a copy and take it with you to the post office
when you mail so you can reference the publication thoroughly when
discussing it with the your postal clerk.
>
> By the way, I am not a lawyer or anything, so please take my opinion 
> with
a grain of salt.
>
> Toby
>
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