Re: Selfing
Well you seem to have caught on some what to what I posted to Bp.com Cliff.
I'll try to put fact into some of this theory...
* To create an F2, cross your fruit with something from the mother line.
No you would cross the F1 to get an F2
ie. X= mother B= Father XB=F1 So you would self XB to get F2 of which you would get some seed XB, X and B so what you want to do is pick F2 XB and self that to get something like F3 XB, XB, XB, X, B again pick the XB's and keep selfing eventually what you will end up with is a pure line XB which is a stable variety like the AG.
Now with all the seeds from the AG what every one is really doing is inbreeding whether you self, cross, sibb, etc. is creating an AG since it is a stable variety and no one has crossed the AG with a different variety like a sugar pumpkin, then you would create an F1 AG X Sugar Pumpkin. Which by the way right now is illegal as howard has the p.v.p.
What you are seeing is different traits/genes in the variety being brought out with certain crosses/selfing (inbreeding) etc. with in the variety, ie the 935 Lloyd seeds (most) has a good trait/gene that was selfed a few times to create pumpkins that carried the heavy gene if you will, when crossed/inbreed with the right pumpkin in the variety it creates a hybrid vigor that causes that carried gene from the Lloyd to come out, ie 865 Mettler, 780 Eaton etc. if you look back through the generations you'll see which ones should work with the Lloyd as the parents, grandparents etc.will come from a totally different lineage.
Good ones out there now is a Hebb '02 that has the 935 Lloyd crossed with the 875 Dill or one I feel would do great is the 732 Holland '02 935 Lloyd x 1049 Holland '01
If you want to test the theory get your hands on the 714 Bobier '02 or the 835 Bobier '02. YES they are 935 Lloyd X 865 Mettler exactly like the 732 and 845 I'll bet you my wife, kids and house (sorry not the family dog) that these seeds will show the same 1000 lb fruit as the others.
Some one, I believe Mike or Vickie mentioned size traits have to refresh all that has been said...
Most vegetables and I would guess pumpkins are no different have a recessive gene for size. meaning they tend to revert to the smaller rather than the larger unless you can isolate an F1, F2 etc that have this gene. Howard must have and then the variety was improved/evolved through inbreeding and growing techniques which improved this gene as in the 935.
Minnie Zacceria as well did this with the Big Zac and even yours truly did this with my Thunder Creek tomato. Selecting the biggest hybrids to inbreed in stabilizing the variety.
Another gene which by the way is recessive is the green gene look at the 895.5* Hester or the 901* Hebb
Ags by the way appear to be tolerant to inbreeding and are not inbreeding depressed or self-incompatibal it is merely a matter of evolving or bettering the variety through growing techniques etc.
Well enough on the first question, LOL
* F2's are created to enhance consistency.
F2's are created to enhance consistency or in another way "create a pure line"
* A "self" or "sib" pollination qualifies as an F2.
A self pollination qualifies as an F2
* Make an F1 by starting with an F2 and then crossing another line. Ideally,
one would hope to get some desirable characteristic from the new line.
(Thick walls,
nice color, etc.)
Nope create the F2 From the F1
* The worlds best seeds have had elements of this theory in their
background, intentional or not.
I believe (have not asked), that it was intentional with alot of seeds Lloyd, Greer, Vader, Emmons, Pukos, Kuhn etc. etc.
Note from history: which two seeds have had most
impact? I would suggest the 935 Lloyd and 567.5 Mombert.
Many hot seeds today, come from these lines, example:
723, 940 Mombert 98, etc.
Yes, But I believe the 946.5 Geerts created the spark to hybrid vigor.
Each of these was created by some degree of inbreeding
in the lines, to reduce the number of parents, keep the
gene pool more pure and thus create consistency. Then,
you introduce a new line. Perhaps this is where the
concept of "hybrid vigor" comes in... not just from
endlessly crossing, but by starting with two fairly
pure sources and then crossing.
Yep all the way...
Well anyway, I'm no expert, but any theory is fun to
play with. I think it fits what we've seen.
Yep when in doubt look at the past to predict the future, your getting good Cliff hate to compete at a weigh-off against you...lol
Take a look at the 846 Calai background. It takes
fairly pure 567.5 Mombert genetics and crosses that
with Lloyd, also fairly pure. That seed of course
speaks for itself.
This I will say only once should be the best seed to test this theory even better than the 935 Lloyd given a few years, wish me luck.
***THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY, based on observations and study.***
I like to refer to it as the big AG theory...(chuckle)
TTYL
Ernie
Giant Veggies
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