Re: Ciliberto 983/ flat vines

Beth,
I agree with you, flat vines seem to be
occuring more and more (or at least we
are hearing about them more).
Out of the aprox. 45 AG plants growing in
Napa by local growers, I know of 4 flat
vines (nearly 10% of our plants). 3 of the
4 split to doubles.
The suspected causes are genetics, microbes,
fertilizing techniques, watering techniques,
nutrient balance, and weather.
Is one of these factors causing the flat vines
or is it a combination of several ??
I think we need to analyze a lot of input
from a lot of growrers to determine why
this is happening. 
Is there a pattern ??

George
Napa, Ca

 



This seems to be happening more and more... what do you all think is the 
cause?  There were posts not long ago that a good number of Calai 846's have 
had flat vines, now the 983.  Is it genetic?  Has there been too much 
inbreeding, and are we finally seeing repercussions?

This year I had a Holland 903 go flat, then later split to a double, and I 
had a Patrick 760 whose vine was not flat or double, but which suddenly 
split into two mains about 4 feet out.  Is there some environmental 
condition which triggers flats/doubles?

As to the genetic question, are most of us pollinating based on genetic 
history of fruit size and color only??  Are we using the mutants to 
pollinate, or are we producing fruits on mutants that have had a double or 
flat main terminated?  THEN, if and when we distribute any of the resulting 
seeds, are we noting any known mutations so that the recipients can factor 
that information into their decisions about seed selection?

Personally, I would think that this is an undesirable trait which we should 
be working to eliminate.  I had a choice on a pollination this morning:  
self it (which I'm not wild about), or use males from the mutant Holland 
(which, by the way, has phenomenally vigorous growth).  I chose selfing 
because I don't want to have to deal with a flat vine again.     Of course, 
if I only had males from a mutant, I would sure use those rather than forego 
setting a fruit.  But given a choice, I'm thinking I should avoid having 
mutant genes passed on.

But if there's some nutrient imbalance or weather condition or other 
environmental thing that is triggering the condition, then all this wringing 
of hands and gnashing of teeth may be irrelevant.

Thoughts??

Beth


----Original Message Follows----
From: Larry Checkon <centrecomm@earthlink.net>
I now know of 6 of the Cil. 983's that have developed flat vines...



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