RE: pumpkins DIGEST V1 #14
- Subject: RE: pumpkins DIGEST V1 #14
- From: &* M* <t*@gschq.com>
- Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:09:15 -0700
- Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
- List-archive: <http://www.hort.net/lists/pumpkins/> (Web Archive)
- Thread-index: AcRai3a67zPBFYaPQJK+f7ZlSPlWLQAPSZww
- Thread-topic: pumpkins DIGEST V1 #14
Tad with Cub Scout Pack 819.
With all this talk for the AG having secondary root systems, Is it a good Idea to use Weed Block to controll weeds? Weed block would prevent any secondary root systems, unless you work hard to clear it and then bury the vine.
Ideas? Comments?
tad
-----Original Message-----
From: pumpkins DIGEST [p*@hort.net]
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 1:01 AM
To: pumpkins-digest@hort.net
Subject: pumpkins DIGEST V1 #14
pumpkins DIGEST Friday, June 25 2004 Volume 01 : Number 014
In this issue:
Covering vines
Re:Covering vines
Re: Covering vines
More help ....Please
JOL Pumpkins Needed
RE: More help ....Please
RE: Covering vines
Re: Seeds in Blossom
Re:Covering vines
trimming and genetics
horizontal splits
RE: horizontal splits
Re: Seeds in Blossom
Re: A little help ....Please
RE: A little help ....Please
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:05:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: "MICHAEL STEVENSON" <stevenson@gibsoncounty.net>
Subject: Covering vines
When do you start covering the vines and how far from the base do you do so? Everything I have read says it is a must for a big pumpkin, but they don't say when to start. My primary vines are about 7 ft long and secondary vines are about 3 ft long. Thanks ahead of time for any advice.
Michael
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:24:21 -0400
From: "Mike Nepereny" <neps@alltel.net>
Subject: Re:Covering vines
I really really starting to think that covering the vines in dirt may do more harm than good. The original idea I believe was to encourage rooting of the feeder roots that appear at each leaf junction. With this mind, what good does covering the entire vine do? Is even burying the leaf junctions really advantagous? Is it truly generating more feeder root activity? Its not hard to see how submerging all the vines in dirt might introduce some problems. I have 9 plants going this year so I may be rationalizing a bit. All that vine burying sucks!
Any thoughts on this?
Mike
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:25:10 EDT
From: LIpumpkin@aol.com
Subject: Re: Covering vines
In a message dated 6/24/2004 10:20:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
neps@alltel.net writes:
> Any thoughts on this?
>
>
Wind and vine borer access is a definite concern for me. I've seen alot of
those top additional roots dry out and die unless burried....at least if they
stay burried for a while the harden up a tad and the parts that make it beneath
the soil live and produce long enough to feed my soil nasties a tasty root
buffet. ..............G
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:06:18 -0800
From: "kathie morgan" <fishrap@earthlink.net>
Subject: More help ....Please
Rich,
Offhand I'd say the closer the fruit is to the main trunk, the harder the tug of war as the fruit tries to grow to an astonishing 1500 lbs (every AG's dream). As the fruit grows, its stem rises, lifting everything around it, like an incoming tide. The trunk with its root system can either grab on underground and hold tight, stunting the pumpkin's growth, or the pumpkin can pull its life support up by the roots. Neither is pretty, and children should be shielded from the sight and sounds. Good luck! Kathie
- --
- ----------
>From: "Rich Canter" <chaselounge@msn.com>
>To: <pumpkins@hort.net>
>Subject: Re: A little more help ....Please
>Date: Wed, Jun 23, 2004, 8:41 PM
>
> On this topic,
> I have seen many posts stating that the pumpkins need to be several
> feet out. Why? What is the closest it could be and what is the problem
> with having one right up there with mama?
> Rich
> Texas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BMas1001@aol.com
> To: pumpkins@hort.net
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 8:37 PM
> Subject: A little help ....Please
>
>
> Hi All;
> I would appreciate any help I can get.....................
> 1. I have two pumpkins both about 5-6 foot from the root
> ball. I
> assume this is to close, but not sure. Would this not cause to much stress
> on the pumpkin?
> 2. One of these has already blossomed and at this time there are
> no males open. Can I assume that this probably did not get a good
> pollination?
> 3. I have another pumpkin about 12 feet out from the root ball.
> Is this a good distance?
> 4. Is it OK to freeze male blossoms, as some are ready to open
> and my new female is not ready yet?
> That you for all your
> help.......................
>
>
> Tony C.
>
> Fairport, NY
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:08:03 EDT
From: Ezpumpkin@aol.com
Subject: JOL Pumpkins Needed
I continue to receive frequent requests for pumpkins for fall photo shoots.
My list of people who have JOLs for sale (premium prices!) is down to two.
If you have pumpkins to sell now, please email me privately. I will put you
on my list and get you in contact with requesters.
Thanks,
Bob Matthews
Pumpkin Nook
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:18:35 -0700
From: "Bob Troy" <rtroy@socal.rr.com>
Subject: RE: More help ....Please
In addition to what Kathie mentioned, the leaves die off sooner near the stump due to age.
The farther the pumpkin is set out on the vine, the longer the leaves will be around to help supply energy and food.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-pumpkins@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of kathie morgan
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:06 AM
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: More help ....Please
Rich,
Offhand I'd say the closer the fruit is to the main trunk, the harder the tug of war as the fruit tries to grow to an astonishing 1500 lbs (every AG's dream). As the fruit grows, its stem rises, lifting everything around it, like an incoming tide. The trunk with its root system can either grab on underground and hold tight, stunting the pumpkin's growth, or the pumpkin can pull its life support up by the roots. Neither is pretty, and children should be shielded from the sight and sounds. Good luck! Kathie
- --
- ----------
>From: "Rich Canter" <chaselounge@msn.com>
>To: <pumpkins@hort.net>
>Subject: Re: A little more help ....Please
>Date: Wed, Jun 23, 2004, 8:41 PM
>
> On this topic,
> I have seen many posts stating that the pumpkins need to be several
feet out.
> Why?
> What is the closest it could be and what is the problem with having
one right
> up there with mama?
> Rich
> Texas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BMas1001@aol.com
> To: pumpkins@hort.net
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 8:37 PM
> Subject: A little help ....Please
>
>
> Hi All;
> I would appreciate any help I can get.....................
> 1. I have two pumpkins both about 5-6 foot from the root
ball.
> I
> assume this is to close, but not sure. Would this not cause to much
stress
> on the pumpkin?
> 2. One of these has already blossomed and at this time
there are
> no males open. Can I assume that this probably did not get a good
> pollination?
> 3. I have another pumpkin about 12 feet out from the
root ball.
> Is this a good distance?
> 4. Is it OK to freeze male blossoms, as some are ready
to open
> and my new female is not ready yet?
> That you for all your
help.......................
>
>
> Tony C.
>
> Fairport, NY
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:34:00 -0700
From: "Bob Troy" <rtroy@socal.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Covering vines
I've seen vines buried deep with no ill effect and others buried, only to rot due to too much moisture so soil types, may have varying effects.
I usually dig a shallow trench and just cover the leaf junctures so I can monitor the vine between the junctures. I've also left some unburied and later found huge tap roots on the bottom.
Even if left unburied but kept moist additional roots will form on the top, curl over and find there way to the soil.
Either way, more roots, more nutrients being processed to feed the pumpkin??
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-pumpkins@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of Mike Nepereny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:24 AM
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: Re:Covering vines
I really really starting to think that covering the vines in dirt may do more harm than good. The original idea I believe was to encourage rooting of the feeder roots that appear at each leaf junction. With this mind, what good does covering the entire vine do? Is even burying the leaf junctions really advantagous? Is it truly generating more feeder root activity? Its not hard to see how submerging all the vines in dirt might introduce some problems. I have 9 plants going this year so I may be rationalizing a bit. All that vine burying sucks!
Any thoughts on this?
Mike
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:25:06 -0600
From: "Harold Jorgensen" <hwoodmn@ida.net>
Subject: Re: Seeds in Blossom
Hi Guys and Gals,
On this subject, Last year we grew a 1097 Beachy and his 550 Both of these plants had huge females when they opened they were so deformed with seeds there was no option But to cull them. this happened on the first 2 or 3 females and it seemed as though I wouldn't have anything growing in time for our State fair,but as it went the plants started to throw good females. The 550 produced my 371 but the 1097 never quite got going. I took all the warnings as to splits from seeds in blossoms and never tried to get any of these going. I know, Not much help but that's my story and I'm stickin to it! H-K-J
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened!
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Crews
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 11:08 PM
Subject: Seeds in Blossom
Hi List:
I just had a first female open on a 1373 Dueck Papez and I noticed that
there were seeds in the blossom. I had heard about this phenomenon but
had never seen it first hand. I remember quite a while ago there was a
discussion about whether or not this caused splits later on because
there is one part of the pumpkin that does not have seeds in it. I was
wondering if anyone had any experience successful or otherwise with a
fruit with such condition. Yes I think that it took and yes I know it
is a little early but still it is in a good spot.
Thanks.
Don Crews.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: vince <anaid_tecuod@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:Covering vines
I've never lost a vine to rot because of burying but I guess it does happen. I have saved a lot of vines from being rolled and damaged by the wind by covering them to help anchor them to the ground.
I don't think we are just talking about encouraging feeder roots when the vines are buried. I've seen four major tap roots form (two on top, two from the bottom) on a single leaf junction on a properly buried vine. These are important from the standpoint of anchoring the plant as well as feeding the plant. Those with vine borer problems, have another good argument for covering the vines.
Bottom line - buried vines equal bigger pumpkin!
vince
- --- Mike Nepereny <neps@alltel.net> wrote:
> I really really starting to think that covering the vines in dirt may
> do more harm than good. The original idea I believe was to
> encourage rooting of
> the feeder roots that appear at each leaf junction. With this
> mind, what
> good does covering the entire vine do? Is even burying the
> leaf junctions
> really advantagous? Is it truly generating more feeder root
> activity? Its
> not hard to see how submerging all the vines in dirt might
> introduce some
> problems. I have 9 plants going this year so I may be
> rationalizing a bit.
> All that vine burying sucks!
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
> Mike
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:40:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "MICHAEL STEVENSON" <stevenson@gibsoncounty.net>
Subject: trimming and genetics
#1. What kind of trimming needs to be done on the vines? I am completely new at this and would love to hear advice that anyone has.
#2. Where do you go to research family trees for the pumpkins you plant? I want to be more selective next year with the seeds I plant. This year I bought Dill's seeds (with no history that I know of.....just know it was from a pumpkin 500-700 lbs).
#3. Anyone know if there is a weigh off near Southern Indiana?
Michael
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:02:06 -0400
From: david rathbone <david.rathbone@sympatico.ca>
Subject: horizontal splits
Hello List.
I have several 3" horizontal splits exposing the insides of the main
vines on both my 1373 Dueck/Papez and my 805 Pukos. I have put some
fungicide on the splits to try to help it heal. What else should I be
doing?
thanks
Dave in Hamilton
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:33:29 -0700
From: "Bob Troy" <rtroy@socal.rr.com>
Subject: RE: horizontal splits
Let them air dry and stake them down so they don't roll or move anymore.
They'll scar over and be fine ..
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-pumpkins@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of david rathbone
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 3:02 PM
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: horizontal splits
Hello List.
I have several 3" horizontal splits exposing the insides of the main
vines on both my 1373 Dueck/Papez and my 805 Pukos. I have put some
fungicide on the splits to try to help it heal. What else should I be
doing?
thanks
Dave in Hamilton
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:44:32 -0700
From: Don Crews <bigandorange@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Seeds in Blossom
Thanks for the responses. Sounds like there have been some successes
and some failures. I tend to err on the side of caution so I think I
will let this one go until I have a better one set on the vine.
By the way Martin, the temperatures here at night have been only 3
degrees Celsius for this past week. If we don't get some summer soon,
there won't be any left. Good luck with that. I guess we will find out
which pumpkins will grow in cool climates.
Don Crews
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:26:04 EDT
From: BMas1001@aol.com
Subject: Re: A little help ....Please
Hello All;
Thanks to Katie and Toby for all your great help !!!
Toby's' answer now brings another question. What is to be
gained by letting my first pumpkin at 5 or 6 feet from the root ball to be allowed
to grow to the size of a basketball just to cut it off? Will this not just
use energy that would go to the next bud, which is around 12 feet?
And while I have your ear, or eye if you please..... I have
three main vines,
and two of them have secondary vines. All three now have pumpkins at 8, 12
and 13, or 14 feet out. Should I allow all three to set pumpkins? I would be
please with two big pumpkins than three medium ones.
Again .....thank you for you help.........
Tony C.
Fairport, NY
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 23:36:33 -0700
From: "Toby" <mr-sprout@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: A little help ....Please
Hi Tony
The thing that I would have gained from pollinating 5-6 foot pumpkin would be nothing more than experience. Last year I did a poor job and had a lumpy looking squash to show for it. I figure that if there's a female ready to receive pollen, may as well give it a shot for the sake of practice. Its what I would do, that's all. Honestly, since its only going to take a few days for the pumpkin to reach basketball size, it shouldn't suck away too much energy. There is also the theory out there that if you prune away certain vital parts of an AG, the plant responds by working harder to feed the next viable fruit.
Who knows for sure. Its a theory.
Now tell me, do you have three main vines on only one plant? Your wording sound like you do. That's pretty cool! Coincidentally, this reminds me of a conversation I had with Kyle (honest, he's not the only guy I talk to about AGs!). He had a single plant last year that grew 4 mains. For no other reason than curiosity, he let them each grow one pumpkin (I think they were all cream colored). If I remember the conversation correctly, he ended up with close to 2000 pounds of pumpkin from one plant. Divided four ways, that's close to 500# per pumpkin. Not too shabby, huh? I remember the story because got me hoping one of my plants will multivine so I can give it a try. :-D I don't know how much different the results would have been if he grew only one fruit, but I suspect he would have gotten a 600-800 pounder. Just a guess, though.
Toby
mr-sprout@sbcglobal.net
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-pumpkins@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of BMas1001@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:26 PM
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: Re: A little help ....Please
Hello All;
Thanks to Katie and Toby for all your great help !!!
Toby's' answer now brings another question. What is to be
gained by letting my first pumpkin at 5 or 6 feet from the root ball to be allowed
to grow to the size of a basketball just to cut it off? Will this not just
use energy that would go to the next bud, which is around 12 feet?
And while I have your ear, or eye if you please..... I have
three main vines,
and two of them have secondary vines. All three now have pumpkins at 8, 12
and 13, or 14 feet out. Should I allow all three to set pumpkins? I would be
please with two big pumpkins than three medium ones.
Again .....thank you for you help.........
Tony C.
Fairport, NY
End of pumpkins DIGEST V1 #14
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