Re: Pumpkin size - Seed size
Steve.
My grandmother used to always say "little boys should be seen but not heard
from" or something to that effect - so post to the group your picture and -
- well you know the rest.
Brian
>From: "Great Pumpkin" <greatpumpkin99@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pumpkins@mallorn.com
>To: pumpkins@mallorn.com
>Subject: Re: Pumpkin size - Seed size
>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:22:36 EDT
>
>
>>Steve, I still don't think that these plants are evolving as you say.
>>Since evolution is a blind process that selects against undesirable jeans
>>[You mean like anything from the "GAP FAT" line? [Sarcastic comment added
>>by Steve. Steve couldn't help it. Steve apologizes. Don't send Steve the
>>"Love Bug" because of it. Thank you.]]
>>instead of picking desirable ones, it seems as if we are just taking
>>better
>>care of the plants and breading them better. We are picking desirable
>>traits
>>and masking undesirable traites by babing our plants from seed to pumpkin
>>5
>>months later. We are keeping undesirable traits around. For one, the
>>size
>>of these pumpkins and leaves creates a huge surface area problem. This
>>causes the plants to lose a ton of water. Also, we take such good care of
>>these pumpkins that they may start producing fewer and fewer seeds. To
>>some
>>degree, plants make seeds in responce to stress. When a plant feels it
>>needs
>>to pass on more genes, it produces many seeds. In fact, the fitness of a
>>plant is its ability to pass on genes to the next generation. Look at
>>Larry
>>Checkon's pumpkin. He had no viable seeds. It seems we may be producing
>>plants that are less fit. This may end up being our limiting factor.
>
>
>Well, you have a point in your last sentence. We are breeding them for
>traits that we are picking, which could lead to a weakness somewhere else.
>But...."breeding the plants better" as you said, IS what I mean by the
>evolution of the plants. None of these are really left to breed in the
>wild,
>we are taking care of that. The plants are evolving by our hand, meaning
>that the prominant genetic traits in our A.G. "gene pool" are conforming to
>what plants we allow to survive and breed.
>Evolution doesn't really have anything to do with "babying" our plants.
>That
>doesn't really affect the genes at all, but it can, as you say, mask some
>undesirable traits, which we could be breeding in without knowing it. So
>again, you have a point. I doubt that any A.G. cold really thrive in the
>wild at all, since they have conformed to being "babied", with extra
>fertilizers, insecticides, fungicides, etc. So any natural resistance
>traits
>could have been bred out, since it was not one of the traits that we
>selected for, and if it was, it was still reliant on some insecticides and
>other chemicals.
>As for amount of seeds, I don't think it has to do with "stress", really.
>It
>probably is just that since we are breeding for fruit size alone, the
>traits
>for seed viability is being ignored, whereas in nature it would be a
>primary
>focus since only pumpkins with viable seeds would be growing year after
>year, therefore passing on that trait strongly.
>As for leaf surface, water loss, pumpkin size, etc. There shouldn't be any
>problems with these situations, since, obviously, if these factors
>negatively affect a plant maing it produce an inferior pumpkin (if any),
>there will be no seeds to from them planted, (and hopefully no one will use
>them as pollinators), therefore the traits that allow these situations will
>not be passed on.
>I think nature can handle all of that, as long as we just grow these
>things,
>and pick the best ones for crossing, with "BEST" including not only fruit
>size, but taking into consideration splits, and anything else that prevents
>the fruit from getting to what we want. Also COLOR could be a good factor
>to
>consider, since pretty soon, these things are going to just look like big
>yellow squash (SHHHHHH! THEY ARE PUMPKINS!), and we don't want that either!
>But it can get so complicated if you try to focus on too many factors. If
>you just focus on the fruit, that is the only indicator we need to know how
>"good" the plant is. Don't worry about leaf size/water loss, etc., let
>nature sort that out. Plants that produce the fruit that is the best size,
>shape and color, with no splits, etc., those are the genes we want to pass
>on, whatever they might be. In other words, if it makes it to a weighoff
>and
>you are near the top, you have good genes. Of course we should also focus
>on
>seed production, too. But over time, this will take care of itself, since
>obviously if there are not many seeds, the trait that causes this will stop
>being passed on! But you are right, it couldn't hurt to give it a little
>attention. Until we perfect cloning and genetic enginerring for
>A.G.'s....but that's another story!
>
>-Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
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