Re: AG THOUGHTS what else
- To:
- Subject: Re: AG THOUGHTS what else
- From: R* J* N*
- Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:46:56 -0600
Roger and Broc:
Great threads to talk about here......I love this stuff!
My take on this genetics issue is quite different, and I guess I'm kind of
part of the minority in my view. In my limited genetic exposure at school
I formed the attitude that the most "promising" strategy of plant breeding
was the controlled use of inbred lines. Without a doubt the greatest
drawback of growing AGs now is the lack of consistancy in the seeds of a
given cross. We're looking at less than 10% of the seeds from a really
good cross being truly really good seeds.
Some of you are already aware of the controlled breeding program we have
started here in WI. Our goal is quite simple and direct. We're seeking
out initially a consistantly producing hybrid the relialbly can grow fruit
in the 6-800 pound range. Thats our first step. Its my strong opinon
that many growers have been making a major mistake is simply crossing the
biggest with the biggests. Now, some arguement has been made in the past
to the effect that...."We've been making weight gains over the last twenty
years and we keep getting better......why change our strategy?" This
arguement is valid, because the method of keeping the biggest and crossing
the biggest with the biggest is breeding strategy in and of itself, and it
will continue to make some gains. But, I contend that the next major
breakthroughs in this sport (ie....1500 pounds) will take place as the
result of a controlled breeding program.....and a true hybrid variety.
Now many people have mistakenly used the term hybrid to describe their
crosses, but they really aren't. The best display of hybrid consistancy
would be to drive by your neighbors farm and look at their corn, wheat, or
other crops. Look across the field.....each plant is essentially
identical. We need this simple characteristic before we can move on.
The reason is simple........broc your right that climate and nutrients and
other things are very important......but we can't properly do reasearch on
these variables till we have a consistant variety. The reason is that the
genetic variables among our samples is greater than any effects from
different soil or fertilizer or whatever your testing.
In short..........the AG genetic base is quite a jumbled mess and the
amount of variability is very high. The sport is in great need of a
reliable seed source that has true hybrid vigor in order to elevate to the
next level!
Rick
----------
> From: Vickie Brock <brocfarm@pacific.net>
> To: pumpkins@mallorn.com
> Subject: Re: AG THOUGHTS what else
> Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 11:22 PM
>
>
>
> Richard J. Noffke wrote:
>
> > Bravo Roger!
> >
> > This really sums the issues up. I hope everyone will read this
comment
> > over again!
> >
> > Rick from Wisconsin
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: res <res@colfax.com>
> > > To: pumpkins@mallorn.com
> > > Subject: not twins?
> > > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 3:47 PM
> > >
> > > Scott, Every time you cross-pollinate distinctly different varieties
the
> > > first generation is going to be genetic soup. The seeds from this
cross
> > > could exhibit every phenotype in the history of both strains. This
may
> > be
> > > why one year someone grows a big pumpkin and then the next they
don't. I
> > > feel there has been way to much cross-pollination with the pumpkins.
> > > Depending on the genetics involved you could have a 1% chance of
getting
> > > the seeds you want. If a person has lots of room you could grow them
out
> > > to find what you want. I think that people who are growing for size
> > should
> > > have self-pollinated seeds that are at least 1 generation down from
the
> > > cross. This is why I started working with colchine. But it has
turned
> > out
> > > to be a slow process because of my climate. Have fun, Roger
> > >
>
>
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbb
>
> Roger and Rick,
>
> Sure glad you guys are here and offering thoughts, because I love this
stuff.
> And it is through the meeting of our thoughts we can come up with
something
> new,,,,,,,,,first let me tell you that my undertanding of AG genetics is
mild
> at best , just for the life of me don't understand the
variability..(perhaps a
> trait)....haven't seen anything like it or just didn't notice on other
> vegies........lets start ..... for a while I was thinking that we could
> isolate and control with reliability the characteristic of AG.......by
> selfing...................my goal was to self some awesome crosses and
grow
> out the seed and select......all 300 of them pick and choose the best
> traits...........this would take years.....but isn't this what is
happening
> when a grower passes out the seed....so that most of it get tested and
the
> ones that make it to the weigh offs are noticed......and used back
> in........then I was reveiwng the parentages and realized that the
"distinctly
> different varieties "really isn't there............that there are close
> relationships to all the giants and that naturally selection from the
grower
> has occured ...........throw in a squash or two for vigor and things
might get
> rolling.......................but can you tell me can you grow AG that
isn't
> some how related??? to the (birth)foundation past...............and are
not
> most the large ones just choosing the biggest (Selection) from that
> female,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and sure all the environment is a
> factor.................. is that not the biggest "variabilty"..CLIMATE
AND
> NUTRIENTS.....plus these pumpkins are prone to do things under rapid
> growth.........like breaking.................so I have given up on
selfing and
> concentrated on "selection" of good stems ,good blossom ends, great
vines,
> great weight and matching these seems to be matching related pumpkins
with
> good traits........all from my area,,,,,,,,So if you take the stance that
they
> are "all related " then selecting the biggest for the long line of
> offspring........is the way to go if the traits are desirable,,,,,guys I
> don't know .........but this is what i am thinking...........and am
interested
> in your thoughts....brock
>
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