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IN SUPPORT OF ALPINE-L "SORRY"

I hope this will support Harry and Louis of Alpine-l. I did send a note
to all these
authors and no one responded. I would assume it was not a concern from
the author. 

Now to support Harry(lawyer), I will submit the following and hope this
issue is over. Harry  would you please tell our Seed-list our
subscribers if this is ok by 
you?

I am turly sorry to Mallorn Computing for all this trouble. 


We, the members of the Alpine-L Copyright Committee, are asking you to 
reissue, separately, and IN FULL, to all your "seeds" subscribers, each
of 
the postings included in v. 97, no. 13.  We are asking you to append, to 
EACH ONE, the following statement:

Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Robert Nold, Lakewood CO Z6 N+RockyM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-01-28 09:25:07 EST, you write:
>
> >
> > I have always found the "thou shalt not let them freeze" rule quite
> >confusing and because of that like others have ignored it with quite
> >satisfactory results. Although I must admit that the intensity and
> >credentials of the "thou shalt notters" caused me to be fretful about the
> >whole thing.
>
> Growing bananas from seed, yes, this is true. Growing alpines, no it isn't.
> It can freeze at any time during the alpine growing season, and the plants
> still live on. I can provide statistics on temperatures in a typical alpine
> environment (the one just outside my back door and up a few kilometers), if
> anyone is interested. Plants not adapted to their environment become extinct.
> The seeds are wet when they freeze; I don't let anything freeze until fully
> imbibed, but I don't think this needs to be a hard and fast rule.
> I do not see why it is necessary to make rock gardening so complicated. It
> isn't, and shouldn't be.
> I understand that the other day one of our local gardening columns carried
> the dire warning that all penstemon seed must immediately be soaked in
> hydrogen peroxide (H202) for 24 hours or it won't germinate. Were this true,
> the obvious corollary would be that the genus is only found where it rains
> hydrogen peroxide.
Good point; I'll have to tell all my penstemon seedlings to climb back
into their seed coats. H202 or Ga3 can indeed speed things up by
overcoming inhibitors, but all viable seeds will germinate eventually
without this treatment. Speeding things up may be worth doing at times,
for other things the sow it and wait method works just fine. I think the
freezing warnings were supposed to be directed at placing seeds in
household freezers, where the rapid rate of change can cause rupture of
membranes. This is a problem only when seeds have a high moisture
content. Obviously you can seed bank properly dissicated seed at very
low temps for years. Freezing outside under normal conditions is no
problem in any event.
Bob Stewart - Arrowhead Alpines
> My own absolutelly *non-expert* advice would be to ignore all advice (even
> this, if you want) and try everything for yourself. You never know what
> wonders you may achieve.
> Bob

Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:


Judy Showers wrote:

> > It's nice to see commercial seed sources, but I would rather trade seeds
> > off the internet. I can buy seeds anywhere but the real fun of it is
> > trying to grow seeds that someone else in another part of the world has
> > in their garden. Don't get me wrong. I am still very interested in
> > propagation methods, successes & failures & I look forward to hearing
> > them on this list. Judy Showers (Pennsylvania)

Seed sources can be found on http://www.eskimo.com/~mcalpin/soc.html 
These are 
societies which have seed sales/free bees' on a yearly basis. You can
see the 
types of seeds by hitting this link: http://cissus.mobot.org/NARGS/
next hit the link for seed exchange.

Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:


Subject: Re: Cypripedium seeds


Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:57:18 +0200
From:Knut Bjoernstad <knb@NEUMANN.SSB.NO>

> A neighbour sent away for seeds of Cypripedium calceolus var.
> pubescens (Yellow Lady Slipper), and received 2 plump seed pods. The
> instructions note that "seedlings will not emerge the first year."
> After doing some research, I wonder if that should be amended
> "...nor any subsequent year."
>
> H.L. Foster's book reports that nobody has ever succeeded in
> germinating seeds in any medium; G.S. Thomas the same; other
> sources, ditto, with much talk of necessary soil fungi.
>
> Has there been any progress in recent years? Any success outside the
> laboratory? Of course I'll encourage my neighbour to sow the seeds
> anyway.
>
> Ross Greenberg
> Montreal, Quebec, Canada z5
>
Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:


Succeeding with orchid seeds in an ordinary seedgrowing medium needs
more
luck than you would ordinarily relay on. I have read an article in a
swedish magazine obout how you could grow orchids in a nutrient medium
under sterile conditions. The article reported success with this. You
could certainly do this at home, it would need a bit of patience since
the
seedlings would use several years to be big enough to be taken out of
its sterile bottle/container.

You could certainly find information about this through orchid
litterature/
societies. Even if they are more interested in the indoor species, i
think the
procedure is about the same for hardy orchids.

Have I done this or plan to do it? NO

--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Knut Bjornstad  -- knb@ssb.no  -- tel. +47-22 86 46 02 -- fax +47-22 86
49 31
Statistics Norway,   P.b. 8131 Dep. N-0033 Oslo, Norway

Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Subject: Seed sowing techniques......


Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 08:54:43 +-200
From: Herman van Beusekom <herman.van.beusekom@TIP.NL>

Hi, 
Having seen the page-copy of the coming new Gentianbook from Josef Halda
I realised that some of the more choice and difficult Gentians from
China will be introduced in the coming decade. What am I going to do
with those seeds if they come my way is the question.
Not many people in this country and Belgium have been successfull with
seeds of Gentiana grandiflora when it was introduced a few years ago. I
gather none.
The 'old fashioned way' of sowing has not been succesfull with these
seeds.
But has the new method with G3 ?

Yesterday I spoke to a few people here who has been experimenting with
Gibrelline.
Frankly speaking the results of their testing has not prompted me to
hurry to my chequebook
for an order for G3. To the contrary: the people I spoke to agreed that
success with G3 is
not quaranteed. Even if you do it the Norman Deno-way.
'You never know what will happen.' was the honest answer. 'Two years ago
all my Primula seed sprouted.' 'But last year not a single seedling
showed up.' 'This year I have been very
succesfull with Linum aretioides. But no Gentians at all.' (Quotations
are not mine.)
Is not that the same as with the 'old fashioned way'.
Some time ago Norman Singer (hi Norman, we met In San Mateo a few years
ago) stated on this list that is was his choice to stick to the 'old
fashioned way'.
Of course it is but I forgot to ask then why he send this message. Why
does he stick to the
'old fashioned way'. 
Let he speak again, please.

I have also heard rumours that the effect of G3 on the sprouting plant
can be really devastating. 'All my plants lengthened. No one survived.'

I sow my seeds also on the 'old fashioned way' And in my experience I
get the best results (we are talking about the more difficult alpines,
remember) if I sow my seeds as soon as possible. I believe: not later
than the end of december but preferably (much) earlier. And till that
time the seed has to be stored at a cool temperature. I also believe
that sown seed has to be kept frostfree or nearly so. 

A few questions of mine are: How are the results of G3 elsewhere on this
globe ? And under what circumstances (temperatures, light, time of
sowing etc. ?)
Is it a gamble like stated above ?
Can someone open his computer-data as far as sowing concern ? I mean
best time of sowing in relation to high percentage of sprouting etc.
Lets start a discussing about seed sowing. It is the right time of the
year.
I hope my english is good enough to understand what I mean. 
Herman.
Http://www1.tip.nl/users/t323581

Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Subject: Re: Seed sowing techniques......


Date:Sat, 18 May 1996 22:12:24 -0400
From: "Norman Singer, Sandisfield Ma Zone 5 NARGS"
<NSBARGS@AOL.COM>

We get our seeds from a variety of societies, collectors here and
abroad, commercial sources, botanical gardens, friends ,wherever they
are
available.
This years 2200 was a record and will not be repeated. I was happy to
see another method offered . My main reason for outlining my method was
to
show a simple straightforward approach. No sterilizing the mixture, no
pressing down the mixture in the pots, no washing last years pots, no
fuss no
bother. It works for me and should for all novices. Beginners should not
be
frightened away by fancy guidelines lest they get discouraged. Find a
simple approach that works for you and save the complicated formulas for
experts doing special seeds.

To sow seed is a great experience that ought not to be complicated and
inducive of furrowed brows. Best, Norman


Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 13:40:58 -0600
From: Vicki Morin Gallagher <vmg_mt@NETRIX.NET>

Dear Wayne:
Like you I've had good success with the Norman C. Deno's use of
refrigeration for the cold part of a cold moist stratification. The
cool
part of the Deno paper towel formula works well in the summer because
the
baggies of seeds are stored in the refrigerator. but paper towels in
plastic bags at room temperature sometimes develop a little mold smell.
But if you're allegeric to mold a few violent sneezes can't stand in the
progress of seed starting.
Have you tried hydroponic seed starting? I just purchased a
Rainforest for germinating seeds and starting cuttings. My first highly
successful project were the vegetable seeds for my fall garden. Carrot
seed germinated in one day!
My next seeds to be planted on my seed calender are what Deno
calls
the D70 germinators that germinate at room temperature. These are
biennials and perennials that are germinated now for garden placement
this
summer and fall.
I haven't seen any literature on the Rainforest for non veggie
seeds but think the Rainforest deserves a try on the d70 seeds.
What do you think about this project?
Best, Vicki


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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:38:49 -0400
From: Walter Kittredge <kittredg@OEB.HARVARD.EDU>

>From Wayne Kittredge:

Many New Zealand seeds germinate well in the Norm Deno refrigerator
method. If fresh they germinate readily, if stored it takes as much as
a
year. I've also noticed that removing the seed bag from the
refrigerator
after a couple of weeks can occasionally spur germination, which is true
also of alpines from other geographical regions. Most refrigerators
are
operated at 40-45 degrees F.,
but I think it would be ideal if 50-55 degrees were used, perhaps using
a
mini fridge.
Briefly the method is, place wet folded white paper towels in plastic
sandwich bags, sow seed on the towels, fold the bag once and place in
the
fridge, checking for germination weekly. Using this method I've
germinated:
Lobelia roughii, Nothothlaspi rosulatum, Ranunculus crithmifolia, and
Pentachondra pumila (Epacridaceae). Celmisias and the Aster Family in
general don't respond well to this method, at least for me.
A basement with fluorescent lights and sand bed trays also works
pretty
well, as basements are usually cool enough even in July to offer
temperatures close to the ideal range.

Still potting on . . .

Wayne Kittredge North Reading, MA zone 5


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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 23:47:14 -0400
From: "Ernie O'Byrne, Eugene OR zone 7a" <ErnieOB@AOL.COM>

>Iza Goroff wrote
>>According to Norm Deno, "Seed Germination Theory and Practice", 2nd ed. ,
>>1993, all helleborus require a warm period (Deno used 3 months at 700 F,
>>i.e. room temperature) followed by a cold treatment (400). He states that
>>dry storage was fatal. Maybe your stored seed didn't have a chance to
>>desicate.

>In a message dated 96-06-14 17:13:54 EDT, Ian Black writes:

>I don't think that it's absolutely true that desiccating Hellebore seeds is
>100% fatal. Rather, it seems to put them into a state of deep dormancy that
>can require several seasons to recover from. I've just germinated some seed
>of H. vesicarius that had been hot and dry for 6 months before sowing. It
>took several years to germinate (two or three if my memory serves me right).
>If the seed came from a choice plant, don't give up on it for at least this
>period of time.

Helleborus vesicarius is not a very good test case, however, coming, as
it
does, from scrubby hillsides in the hot dry summer areas of Turkey and
Syria.
But, I also agree with the main point that germination of hellebore seed
is
possible from old seed, although almost always delayed. We have had
germination of old seed, but it has been very sparse compared with
fresh,
even holding the pots for several years (we keep them through the spring
of
the third year). The other candidate for germination from dry stored
seed,
would be Helleborus lividus, coming from Majorca, but from the
description of
habitat, it sounds as if it must grow in much damper sites than H.
vesicarius, but it is a mediterranean climate and may dry out. Does
anyone
have first-hand experience with seeing it in habitat?

We have collected seed from the one pot of H. lividus we have, but
planted it
all immediately, as most of the flowering stems withered without
producing
seed. Now we shall see what it means when they say that H. argutifolius
should "not be around to cross-pollinate and give you H. sternii
instead." Is
a hundred feet far enough away? That is not very far for a bee.

Ernie O'Byrne, Eugene, OR Zone 7a, too cold for Helleborus lividus


Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:28:18 -0400
From: Robert and Sharon Illingworth <illingwr@air.on.ca>
The following article has been forwarded by the Illingworths for
reposting
to Alpine-L. Please see the notes at the very end for its origins and
for their plea for feedback. Thanks. 

At this time of year we begin to anticipate our long winters, when
gardening
is reduced to books and lists. These are no substitutes for real
gardening,
but rooting cuttings of alpine and woody plants comes as close as our
climate permits.

After trying to manage our cuttings in polybags and a largely
unsuccessful
attempt at mist propagation we began (in frustration) to utilize several
old
10 gallon aquariums with panes of glass for lids as propagation boxes.
Too
simple. Sterilized with a 10% bleach solution, the aquariums have been
easy
to manage. Excess moisture can be bled off by sliding the lid open 1/2"
or
so and then closing it again. The units are placed under fluorescent
lights
in a cool room.

The main way to success is to keep things as sterile as possible. I try
to
use new plastic pots or at least pots that have been washed in soap and
water. Sometimes I will also soak the pots in the dilute bleach solution
if
I have the time and the cuttings are special. Cuttings are potted up in
3"
square pots using a 50/50 peat/perlite mix. When I prepare the mix I
like
the peat moss and perlite to be slightly damp but not wet. The
individual
pots will often hold up to six cuttings; they should be placed so that
they
are not touching each other or the sides of the aquarium.

When taking the cuttings I use an old style razor blade broken in
two
as I like clean cuts with no ragged edges. The name of the plant is
written
right on the pot with a felt marker. Most cuttings are dipped in number
two
rooting hormone. The pots and cuttings are drenched with a fungicide,
Benlate wetable powder that is more than several years old. This
fungicide
has been stored in a metal paint can in a cool dry place over the years
and
seems to have maintained its potency. After the drench the cuttings are
left
to dry off and drain in a cool place out of the sun. When the foliage is
completely dry (usually after a few hours) the pots are then placed in a
covered aquarium.

It takes about 5-6 weeks for the cuttings to get going. (Some
woodies
such as rhodos or magnolias take longer so don't give up too soon.)
During
this time they are checked regularly. No additional watering is
necessary.
Some leaves will yellow and they are removed as soon as they fall or as
soon
as they will pull easily from the stem. I try to stay out of the box as
much
as possible. Occasionally some grey mould will form, and if this cannot
be
controlled I remove the pot. If you have maintained sanitary procedures
throughout, used healthy stock and let the pots and cuttings dry off
before
putting into the aquarium these problems should be minimal.

Sometimes roots will show at the bottom of the pots before new growth is
seen on the cutting. Most often new growth and rooting occur at the same
time. Once the cuttings have rooted the pots are removed from the
aquarium
and fertilized several times over the next few weeks with a dilute water
soluble fertilizer with a high middle #. When the cuttings are clearly
into
growth I repot them into a standard soilless mix amended with Turface or
grit.

This method can be used for cuttings of Androsace, the Kabschia Saxes,
heathers, other small woodies such as chamaecyparis, thuja, cassiope
etc.
Penstemons, however, have always failed! And yet some plants, reputed to
be
difficult to root, such as Helichrysum petiolatum root successfully as
long
as care is taken to ensure that they are kept on the dry side. A small
piece
of heather taken now as a cutting will be a vigorous plant in a 4" pot
next
June if fertilized regularly once it has rooted. Sometimes heathers will
also bloom under lights for an added bonus.

We encourage anyone with an unused aquarium to consider using it for
cuttings this winter. It makes a long winter tick by more quickly, and
after
things are underway there is something new to discover almost daily down
under the lights.

Rob and Sharon Illingworth
Thunder Bay
Ontario

USDA 4,
Min -40C/-40F with snow
Min without snow -20C/-4F
Max 30C/86F, rarely higher
Frost free days 110 on average


Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

From: "Mark McDonough, Pepperell MA Zone 5" <Antennaria@AOL.COM>

In a previous message, Barbara L. Weintraub was looking for information
on
germinating seed of various plant species. My answer here deals with
only
one plant listed, namely Allium hyalinum:

I have had quite good luck with this species, as with most allium
species,
sowing the seed in March when there is still cool weather and
occassional
freezing. Generally speaking, Allium seed will germinate well when sown
in
pots, covered with a thin layer of fine gravel (natural color aquarium
gravel
works quite well but is expensive), and left outdoors exposed to natural
elements. I always inspect my seed pots after extended periods of cold
spring showers, guaranteed to produce strong Allium seed germination. 
Allium
hyalinum will respond to this treatment.

Allium hyalinum is a very fine species from California, preferring to
grow in
some shade. In the Seattle area, this species was extremely ornamental,
and
easy to grow. Here in Massachusetts I've yet to find the right spot,
and I
have my doubts as to its hardiness (as it is found growing at relatively
low
elevations). When happy, it'll grow 12-18" tall, with large umbels of
silk
white flowers, apple-green midveins, and a slight fragrance. Some
specimens
are slightly tinged pink. The species epithet refers to the glossy,
almost
reflective petals (tepals really), a characteristic that is actually
common
to many alliums, not just Allium hyalinum. In Seattle I grew it in a
sand-peat bed within the shade of a large chamaecyparis.

Hope you succeed with Allium hyalinum, its a charmer.

Mark McDonough
antennaria@aol.com




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Date:Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:48:25 EST5EDT
From: Ross Greenberg <ROSS@UMS1.LAN.MCGILL.CA>

A neighbour sent away for seeds of Cypripedium calceolus var.
pubescens (Yellow Lady Slipper), and received 2 plump seed pods. The
instructions note that "seedlings will not emerge the first year."
After doing some research, I wonder if that should be amended
"...nor any subsequent year."

H.L. Foster's book reports that nobody has ever succeeded in
germinating seeds in any medium; G.S. Thomas the same; other
sources, ditto, with much talk of necessary soil fungi.

Has there been any progress in recent years? Any success outside the
laboratory? Of course I'll encourage my neighbour to sow the seeds
anyway.

Ross Greenberg
Montreal, Quebec, Canada z5



Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Date:Fri, 17 May 1996 21:38:18 -0400
From: "Norman Singer, Sandisfield Ma Zone 5 NARGS" <NSBARGS@AOL.COM>

How do i keep my seed pots moist when ther is no rain? I spray them. As
to
damping off , we seem not to have that problem. Is it not caused by a
virus?
It hasnt reached Sandisfield. Do not give it directions.

We do not put the seed pots in baggies but everything is kept outside
from
the first sowings on. The pots are in trays covered by the same
latticed
trays which allow rain, snow sun to get through and at the same time
protecte
from the elements.

I was asked if my 65 % germination rate was of pots or of seeds sown. It
is
of the number of pots, I would go mad doing the arithemetic for counting
the
number of seeds.
a question also came as to which of a postings 9 kinds of sand should be
used
in the mixture? That is what we learned was "misplaced concreteness". My
whole point in outling my procedure was to emphasize that one should
relax
about the mixture and not be rigid about a / the method. 50%
jiffy,50%coarse
sand, some osmocote and let it ride. So far, including germinations from
last
years pots, over 1400 pots have germinated. Of course some will go back
and
will be returned to their protective trays and given another chance for
this
year and next.

Androsaces, hulseas, dicentra peregrina get extra grit but these have no
been
successes in any case. Be happy when sowing.

Norman Singer



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Mon, 29 Apr 1996 15:17:03 -0400
From: "Norman Singer, Sandisfield Ma Zone 5 NARGS" <NSBARGS@AOL.COM>

Herman van Beusekom asks me to post my usual methods of seed
germination.
First a little background.. As some of you may know, Geoffrey
Charlesworth
and I together sow about 4000 packets of seed each season. We vow each
year
to cut back and geoffrey kept it at about 1800 plus but greed won out
with
me and I sowed 2100 plus so we are still at 4000. Note this is 4000
packets
not species since perforce we frequently order the same species.For all
of
these seeds we use the same simple method with a mixture of 50% jiffy
mix(a
soilless mixture) and 50% sharp sand plus a sprinkling of osmocote( a
slow
release fertilizer). Androsace seeds sometimes get a grittier mixture.

Seeds are sown on three inch pots, covered with a light sprinkling of
sand
and allowed to soak from the bottom( kitty litter trays are useful for
this).Trays of these pots are covered by latticed trays to allow sun,
rain
and snow . They are placed outside and exposed to zone 4-5 Massachustts
weather. Sowing begins in November and goes on as long as seeds arrive
although I did look doubtfully at todays arrival from N>C>Botanical
Garden
and they may be held over till next season..All pots are kept for at
least
two seasons.

I referred to this as the old fashioned way and we have been using
essentially this method for 25 years. We get a satisfactory for us
germination rate of 65%. (The worst curse anyone can visit on us is "may
all
your seeds germinate"). We advocate this simple method before advising
novices to use fancy methods and complicated formulas.

A few experiments with gibberalic acid have been unconvincing. This year
Archibald suggest fish emulsion in the water for castillejs. No results
yet
since the late spring delayed germination until about ten days ago( as
of
yesterday geoffrey has 617 germinations, I have 676). We use the same
mixture
for transplanting seedlings. Same kitty litter trays. Re gentians
specifically: we more often than not get our germinations for these the
second year.

Norman Singer (and friendly greetings to Herman- well to everyone but he
sent
me his first.)





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Date:Thu, 25 Apr 1996 06:23:00 GMT
From:"Mace, Michael" <MACE1@APPLELINK.APPLE.COM>

What I've learned from our discussion so far is that:

1. I can't complain about people collecting bulbs unless I make sure
they know
how to grow them from seed.

2. Those of us who do grow bulbs need to contribute seed to the
exchanges so
people can get it easily. I slacked off this year, but won't again.

Here are some growing tips. I know the topic of bulbs is marginal to a
lot of
alpine gardeners, so I apologize in advance for the length of this note.

I have about 300 species of bulbs growing in my small backyard, in
8-inch (20
cm) plastic pots. I used to think this was an impressive accomplishment
until
I met an Australian gentleman who claims to have 10,000 pots of bulbs. 
I don't
know when he finds time to eat.

The vast majority of the bulbs I grow are summer-dormant species from
Mediterranean-climate (summer-dry) areas, and my comments will apply to
those.
I've only been doing this for five years, so I don't pretend to have it
all
figured out yet.

--Soil and fertilizer: The bulbs are all grown in a mixture of 50% peat
and
50% sand, with about three tablespoons of complete bulb fertilizer mixed
in per
pot (Lily Miller brand if it's available in your area). I'm told I use
too
much fertilizer, but the bulbs do not seem to care. I try to repot the
bulbs
every second year. Soil gets re-used three or more times (I just add
fresh
fertilizer). Do not make the mistake of using an organic fertilizer;
they
encourage rot.

--"No leaf mold or compost in the pots at all?" That's right. The
western US
species thrive on these conditions. Some of the South Africans seem a
little
less happy, so I'm experimenting with adding a small amount of
sterilized
potting mix. But I'm not certain the problem is soil.

--"Why plastic pots?" Because the clay ones dry out too fast in my
climate.
If I were in a damper climate, I would definitely use clay.

--Watering: They get watered once a week by a drip irrigation system. 
All the
pots are thoroughly soaked. Watering starts in October-November
(whenever the
weather starts to cool) and goes until the bulbs are dormant (usually
late May
at the latest). Desert species (such as the beautiful orange
Calochortus
kennedyi) don't get water until December, and are watered more
sparingly. The
bulbs get absolutely no water in summer, but are partly shaded so the
pots
won't cook in the sun.

--Sun: Mine get about half a day of sun. If I were in a cooler or
cloudier
place, I would give them more sun.

--Seeds: They are started in 24-ounce colored plastic drinking cups
manufactured by the Solo corporation (you cut holes in the bottoms of
the cups,
of course). If you're in the US, you can probably buy Solo cups in your
local
supermarket. The seedlings stay in the cups undisturbed for two
seasons, then
are moved into the 8-inch pots.

--Stratification: Some bulb seeds need a period of damp cold before
they will
sprout. These seeds go in two-inch pots that I bought mail order (the
smaller
pots save room in the fridge). The soil is moistened thoroughly, the
seeds
planted, then the pots go inside plastic bags and into the fridge. (It
helps
at this point to have an understanding relationship with your spouse or
roommate.) The seeds will often come right up while still in the
fridge. I
formerly used the damp paper towel method of germinating seeds, but
stopped
because too many seeds seemed to be dying due to the transition from
paper
towel to pot.

--How many bulbs to a pot: It depends on bulb size, but the limit seems
to be
about six; any extras go into the rock garden where I can find out which
species fend for themselves best (so far the Ixias are winning).

--Pests & disease: Around here, slugs and damping off are the main
enemies of
seedlings. I bait for the @#$*^^%# slugs and spray a fungicide (Captan)
if
damping off starts to show up.

--How long it takes: Typically the bulbs take 3-4 seasons to grow from
seed to
flower. A few are faster, some take longer.

--Cold: Many bulbs from South Africa are fairly sensitive to frost and
bloom
at times when lots of people are still under snow. Most of the western
US
species are more tolerant of cold and bloom later -- especially the ones
from
colder parts of the country. In fact, some of them are hard for me to
grow
because they don't get enough chilling here, and the summer gets warm
too
early. A few species (such as Calochortus macrocarpus, a large bright
pink
flower with pointed petals) get a visit to the refrigerator every fall.

--Use in the rock garden: Most of the western US bulbs, especially
Calochortus
species, are not very invasive because they don't divide quickly (or at
all).
So you can experiment with them in a rock garden without fear of turning
loose
a monster. There have been several articles on the subject recently in
the
NARGS and AGS publications.

--Tulips: One person asked about species Tulips. I have only grown a
couple
of species from seed, since species Tulip bulbs are readily available by
mail
order. The tulip species I've raised seem happy with the same treatment
as my





Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:38:06 -0700
From: Peter Shaw <pshaw@CTC.CTC.EDU>

>At 11:15 PM 4/30/96 -800, Doug Steele wrote:
>
>>Does anyone have any advice on propagating Lewisias from the offsets?
>> Should I be doing this now, or later? Any hints would be appreciated.
>
>If you are asking about _Lewisia cotyledon_, they are fairly easy to root in
>sand. I like to use a cutting of approximately 1/8-1/4 inch (3-6 mm) in
>diameter and treat the cut end with sulfur.

I have read about using leaf cuttings, but have only tried it once and
failed. I really don't remember the reference but I will continue to
search
and, I will try the method again.

I am also curious about propagation of aplines from seed. I have treated
my
seeds from the NARGS in moist sand in the refer for 4-8 wks. I remove
them,
sow the sand and seed mix and cover them with grit (Chicken or turkey)
and
wait.

Now my question, if they don't germinate can I place them in a cool spot
outside and maybe next year they will go through the same cycle
outdoors?
Any chances?

Peter Shaw
Spokane WA
ZOne 5



Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:15:58 -800
From:Doug Steele <dsteele@CYBERSTORE.CA>

Does anyone have any advice on propagating Lewisias from the offsets?
Should I be doing this now, or later? Any hints would be
appreciated.

Doug Steele, Zone 5, Kelowna Canada


Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:40:56 -0400
From: Jack Lambert RJL6 <rjl6@CORNELL.EDU>

>In a message dated 96-04-26 18:13:14 EDT, you write:
>
>>So - does anyone know what midwinter agent pollinates our hellebores?
>
>Here in the Pacific Northwest I'm sure it must be slugs.
>
>Ernie O'Byrne, Eugene, OR, Zone 7a

Given a warm day in November or early December and the blooming
Hellebore
will be coated with bees but in late winter and early spring, ants do
the
job. Just try to photograph a Hellebore, particularly H. niger, in
March.
You'll devote most of your time to shooing ants and they'll still be up
close and clearly visible in every shot you take.

Nina Lambert


Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:39:02 -0600
From: Vicki Morin Gallagher <vmg_mt@NETRIX.NET>
Dear Norman:

>>>>>>>>>50% sharp sand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What size sand do you use. My local gravel pit carries about 9
different
variations called sand. Should coarse sand be used with a top dressing
of
1/16" sifted pebbles (pit run grit)?

>>>>>>>>>>plus a sprinkling of osmocote( a slow release fertilizer)>>>>>>>>>
What formulations of Osmocote? Do you use 17-6-10 plus minors? 18-6-12?
14-14-14?

>>>>>>>>>>Seeds are sown on three inch pots>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Some 3" pots are 2" tall and others 3 1/2". Do you prefer a specific
height of 3" pot? Do you use square or round pots?

Question: Do you plant community pots or one seed per container?

>>>>>>>Trays of these pots are covered by latticed trays to allow sun, rain
and snow>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Are you speaking of the latticed bottom tray that fits the standard
10x20" flat?

Question: How do you keep your small pots moist in the summer? Do you
move the pots to a north exposure? How do you bottom water that many
seedlings? What time saving apparatus have you devised?

Question: What size do you recommend for seedlings permanent placement
in
the garden? Do you wait for roots to show through the bottom of the
pot?

Now for a non-Alpine statement. The local mountain mahogany,
Cercocarpus
ledifolius Nutt var. intercedens Schneid virtually glows this time of
year.

Best, Vicki


Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Date:Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:42:17 +0000
From: "Douglas J. Canning" <dcanning@igc.apc.org>

Greetings all...

For those of you seriously into native plant propagation I would
like to share a recent discovery: Practical Woody Plant Propagation
for Nursery Growers by Bruce Macdonald (1986, Timber Press,
Portland, Oregon). Not for the faint-hearted, this little puppy
runs to 669 pages and goes for $59.95! 

Still, if you want to know most everything you need to know about
propagation from seeds, cuttings, and layering; seed collection,
treatment, and storage; greenhouses and hand tools; rooting and
rooting hormones; grafting; and a bunch of other stuff; and have a
curiosity about commercial practices, this book is for you. Plenty
of clear photographs and drawings, plus a brief technical
bibliography for each chapter. It is not specific to Northwest
natives (Macdonald is director of the Botanical Garden at the
University of British Columbia), but the techniques are universal
and some examples do draw on Northwest natives.

Enjoy!

Doug Canning
Thurston County, Washington


Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as 
posted there on the date shown:

Date:Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:28:01 +0200
From: Josef Niederle <niederle@MATH.MUNI.CZ>

>
> Gene,
>
> I use fresh seed and a mixture of sand and a commercial peat compost
> which contains many small pieces of composted wood. Jeffersonia dubia
> germinates with no problems next spring.
>
> Josef Niederle
>
I forgot the third component, maybe the most important one:
limy soil from my garden.

-- 
Duncan McAlpine, Federal Way, WA
Why buy plants when you can grow them yourself.....?
http://www.eskimo.com/~mcalpin/
http://www.eskimo.com/~mcalpin/pumkin.html
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