Well,here I go.. I will repost all the posting per Harry request which is going to be spamming for you. I did send addtional notes to harry and louis on support on this issue but they have posted what they want. After this I hope Harry and Louis will tell me If I have met their concerns as I have requested before. I'm sorry I wish this could of been handled better. Life sucks sometimes... -- Duncan McAlpine, Federal Way, WA Why buy plants when you can grow them yourself.....? http://www.eskimo.com/~mcalpin/ http://www.eskimo.com/~mcalpin/pumkin.html
-- BEGIN included message
- To: m*@eskimo.com
- Subject: [Fwd: OmniHorti 107: COPYRIGHT. 1. Editorial. 2-3. Another Alpine-L?-4. Mallorn Computing.-5. Annette McAlpine.-6. Nancy Swell (fwd)]
- From: A* M* <a*@eskimo.com>
- Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:03:56 +0000
-- Annette McAlpine Tacoma WA USA-- BEGIN included message
- To: A*@NIC.SURFNET.NL
- Subject: OmniHorti 107: COPYRIGHT. 1. Editorial. 2-3. Another Alpine-L?-4. Mallorn Computing.-5. Annette McAlpine.-6. Nancy Swell (fwd)
- From: L* P* <p*@peak.org>
- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:58:28 -0800
- Approved-By: Louise Parsons <parsont@PEAK.ORG>
OmniHorti, the No-More-than-Once-a-Day In-and-Out-of-Scope Alpine-L Posting Contents of this issue: Today's Feature: Copyright Issues (900 series) OH900-1. An Editorial OH900-2. Our Request to Duncan McAlpine concerning Attributions OH900-3. Duncan McAlpine "Is Considering" a Second Alpine-L Mailing List unless Non-Subscribers Are Allowed to Post to Alpine-L OH900-4. Letter from [the] Mallorn Computing [Company] OH900-5. Letter from Annette McAlpine OH900-6. Letter from Nancy Swell Other Feature Columns: OH970. Members We've Placed on NOMAIL Status (omitted today; will appear in OmniHorti 108). Boilerplate (omitted today; will appear in OmniHorti 108; last appeared in OmniHorti 106) OH980, How to Get Our Archives, Our Automated Membership Directory, Our Welcome Message, and Other Related Information. OH990, A Complete List of OmniHorti "Feature" Columns, and When They Last Appeared. ^--------------------------------------------------------------- "Anything Good Goes on OmniHorti" The previous issue (OmniHorti 106), was published on Alpine-L on Tuesday, February 18, 1997. Numbers 78-100 were not issued, as explained in OH101. This issue compiled and edited by Harry Dewey. HOW TO REPLY TO OMNIHORTI: Please send comments, and/or contributions to the next issue, to <Alpine-L-Request@nic.surfnet.NL> Mail received by the listowners at any address is subject to publication in OmniHorti. We are particularly reluctant to keep secret any criticisms of Alpine-L, as we do not wish to be accused of censorship. Please don't send us material you would be ashamed to see on OmniHorti. If you are reluctant to respond to Alpine-L-Request, but feel that you must respond to Alpine-L, please do NOT use the subject header "OmniHorti". Please change it to the actual subject of your reply. ^------------------------------------------------------ Text of OmniHorti ^------------------------------------------------------------------ OH900-1. Copyright; an Editorial. [Most of this was written before Duncan McAlpine announced his proposal to establish a second mailing list for non-subscribers to Alpine-L; for details of that proposal, see OH900-2, below] The fact that "Copyright" is a regular column posted on OmniHorti--rather than posted directly to Alpine-L--is not an indication of a lack of the listowners' esteem for the subject. The listowners regard the copyright question as one of paramount importance. We have, however, determined that the majority of our members are not interested in reading about our views, and those of others, on the subject. Consequently, copyright is a topic for OmniHorti. We like to think that our members are content in the beliefs (1) that Louise and I are concerned about their rights as authors and (2) that we will do everything we can to protect those rights. Right on point 1! We ARE concerned about your rights as authors. Right on point 2! We have an Alpine-L Copyright Committee to advise on what we can do to help you protect your rights. We spend as much time as is available to trying to find out if your rights are being violated, to warn violators (when we catch them in the act) of your rights, and to report back to the list transgressions of your rights that have come to our attention, and what, if anything, we have done about them. Alpine-L has a Copyright Code, designed to advise you of your rights as authors. It is Part W in our Handbook series, appeared as OmniHorti No. 64, December 14, 1996 and is available by GETting Alpine-L Log9612; directions for obtaining our logs appear in OH980, below. The Handbook, Part W, also includes the final report of the Alpine-L Copyright Committee, as well as an Alpine-L Copyright Statement. These also appeared in SaxiHorti no. 5 (published on Alpine-L on July 19, 1996, and still available on the Alpine-L web page at http://www.peak.org/~parsont/rockgard/ The Alpine-L Copyright Code itself, taken from the above sources, is reprinted four paragraphs below this paragraph. The Alpine-L Copyright Committee at present consists of Carlo Balistrieri, Jim McClements, Bob Nold, Louise Parsons and myself. We are all very much concerned with the rights of our authors, and regularly exchange views on current problems. We have attempted, without success, and will continue to attempt, to persuade the members of the original Alpine-L Copyright Committee to continue service on the committee. Alpine-L has been used by at least one member to post an entire magazine article that he pretended was his own. That act was exposed by the original Copyright Committee; the plagiarist is now off the list. When we have discovered that others have reprinted members' postings, we have complained, and have usually received apologies. Alpine-L's Copyright Code. 1. Author's Copyright. Copyright of any posting is automatically assigned to you as author. You may wish to assert it explicitly as a reminder to readers of your rights. 2. Securing Reprint Permission. When you quote from another posting, article, or book, you must obtain permission to do. Exceptions are public domain and fair use. Public domain includes government documents, expired copyrights (before 1920 ), and literary property specifically assigned to the public domain. Fair use includes quoting an original post *from the same list* during the course of a reply. 3. Granting Reprint Permission. When asked, you may grant or deny permission in whole or in part. You may prohibit or allow editing. You may grant a single use or multiple uses. You should give explicit, written permission. 4. Attributions. Reprinters must attribute the source. 5. Comportment. The civility and courtesy of all members in these matters is a prerequisite to a harmonious discussion group. Please observe the rules. [End of Alpine-L Copyright Code] Our complaint is not against people who copy innocently, apologize and thereafter cease to appropriate others' work. Instead, our complaint is against plagiarists who know perfectly well that what they are doing is against the law, and who don't care, hoping that Alpine-L and its authors will not be taking legal steps. Our complaints, regrettably, are sometimes undercut by pirated authors who take the side of the plagiarists, and say "Oh, I didn't mind." We are attempting to negotiate with Duncan McAlpine, who is now a listowner himself, as a result of his having recently reprinted dozens of our authors (including, for example, Geoffrey Charlesworth and Bob Nold). We have asked, without success, that McAlpine at least reprint the articles, with an attribution to the original source, and a statement that he had obtained permission. In the form in which he reprinted them, the fact that they had been posted originally to Alpine-L was stripped away, making them appear to have been original postings. We are continuing negotiations, hoping to avoid legal action. See OH900-2, below. Even more disconcerting, we have discovered that a "Mallorn Computing" company has established on the Internet a web site at which Alpine-L postings are made available to anyone the day after they appear on Alpine-L. These reprints appear under the rubric "Mallorn Computing: Horticultural Lists", making our authors' messages appear to have been posted originally by Mallorn. The Alpine-L source headers have been largely stripped away. There is little indication that these "Mallorn Computing: Horticultural Lists" ever appeared on Alpine-L. Outrageous! Intentionally brief as its product was, the Alpine-L Copyright Committee was careful to include a proviso that [authorized] reprints "must be attributed." Our Copyright Committee is in discussion on the form of action to be taken. We have received a conciliatory letter (reprinted in OH900-4, below) from a Mallorn representative, pointing our the advantages of having a searchable website amalgam of ALL garden mailinglists. The fact remains that his company undertook its copying without asking us. We may settle for an initial prohibition and warning. There are those who feel that, because authors' creations are transmitted electronically, rather than on paper, they are presumably exempt from the provisions of copyright law. There are also those who are willing to go along with this view, on the ground that mailing lists are mostly chitchat and of an ephemeral nature. Alpine-L authors have demonstrated repeatedly that the content of Alpine-L can be, and often is, as authoritative as that of any other periodical publication, and this is demonstrated on a daily basis. As the electronic medium begins to rival the print world in economic importance, there will be lawsuits; gradually, copyright law will be found by courts to be as applicable to electronic publication as it is to paper, and repeat violators will discover that their practices are as costly as they are illegal. These beliefs of your listowners are dictating our current and future course of action on your behalf. The listowners are *not* after publicity for Alpine-L, as one New Yorker has claimed. Rather we are seeking protection for our authors, and we are motivated by the fear that if our author's writings are not protected we will not have any authors, or we will not have their best writing. One of our voluminously published Alpine-L members has written recently in discussions of this issue that he avoids posting on a topic about which he has a work-in-progress. The Alpine-L Copyright Code was designed to accomplish two goals: (1) protection of our authors' work, and (2) proper credit, when permission has been granted, to our authors PLUS an attribution statement that enables readers of the reprinted material to find the original and compare the reprint with it. Robert Stewart posted the following the other day: >From seeds-digest-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 15 06:10:30 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:02:39 -0500 From: Robert Stewart <stewart@livingonline.com> To: seeds-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HOW warm for bottom heat? [We have deleted the text of Stewart's message on bottom heat, but are reprinting his signature, under the "fair use" provisions of American copyright law:] Bob Stewart Arrowhead Alpines (our catalog also has fairly good germination instructions and they can be reprinted without my permission I don't have the Alpine-l copyright mentality.) *** Stewart is quite mistaken about the "Alpine-L copyright mentality." We are perfectly happy to have our authors say, as Stewart does here, "This can be reprinted without my permission." But, just as Stewart did, our authors have to say it. Unless they are willing to give or delegate this permission, we are willing and anxious to speak up for their rights. Even if people see copyright as a "minority right" ie...even if the majority of our members did not care if their work fell into the public domain, our basic position is that this right needs to be protected. If any of our authors wish to have their names added to the following list, please write us a letter stating that YOUR future postings on Alpine-L and its sister lists may be reprinted anywhere by anybody without further permission. The list will be posted regularly in this column in OmniHorti, every time it appears. A LIST OF AUTHORS who have granted blanket permission to anybody in the world to reprint their Alpine-L and Alpine-L family of lists postings anywhere in the world without seeking further permission from anyone: 1. Robert Goulashart <Arrowfoot@AOL.org> (sample listing; to be withdrawn once we get some real people on this list) 2. Through this "Copyright" column in OmniHorti, we will be keeping our members posted on these and other copyright developments. Your comments are requested; please send them to Alpine-L-Request@nic.surfnet.NL --HD & LP ^------------------------------ OH900-2. A Request to Duncan McAlpine to Stop Reprinting Alpine-L Postings without Proper Attribution McAlpine, in the offending reprints, has stripped away all mention of the fact that the posts appeared originally on Alpine-L, or that the authors have waived their copyrights (if they did). Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 15:20:03 -0500 (EST) From: Harry Dewey <harryd@CapAccess.org> To: "Seeds, Duncan McAlpine, listowner" <Seeds-Digest-Request@eskimo.com> cc: "A Alpine-L Committee on Copyright, Attributions and Reprinting -- Bob Nold, Rocky Mountain Chapter, NARGS, Lakewood, Colorado" <Cryptantha@aol.com>, "Carlo Balistrieri, Wisconsin-Illinois Chapter, NARGS" <CABalist@FacStaff.Wisc.edu>, "Harry Dewey, Co-Listowner, Alpine-L" <HarryD@CapAccess.org>, "Jim McClements, Delaware Valley Chapter, NARGS, Dover, Delaware" <JimMcClem@aol.com>, "Louise Parsons, Co-Listowner, Alpine-L" <ParsonT@Peak.org> Subject: Re: Reprinting on "Seeds" from Alpine-L without Attributions (fwd) Dear Duncan McAlpine: We note that volume 97, no. 13 of the "seeds digest Digest" contains numerous postings copied from Alpine-L without either a permission statement or attribution to the source. Both of these are customary. We assume you've gotten permission from each of the authors, but that you've overlooked the necessity of saying so. We also assume from the format that each of these messages was posted separately by you to "seeds", also without either attribution or permission statements. The reprints then appeared in your daily digest. We note that you are continuing this process (in volume 97, no. 14, etc.) We, the members of the Alpine-L Copyright Committee, are asking you to reissue, separately, and IN FULL, to all your "seeds" subscribers, each of the postings included in v. 97, no. 13. We are asking you to append, to EACH ONE, the following statement: Reprinted with permission of the author from the Listserv Alpine-L as posted there on the date shown: If you will be so kind as to do this, we will not ask you for any further public statement, and we will be happy for you to reprint from Alpine-L whatever you like in the future, provided that the same statement accompanies each reprint, and that you continue to obtain permission from our authors. Sincerely yours, Alpine-L Copyright Committee Carlo A. Balistrieri Jim McClements Robert Nold Louise Parsons Harry Dewey, secretary *** McAlpine has so far failed to comply with this request. If non-compliance continues, we will deal with him via a third party. --HD ^----------------------------------------------------------------- OH900-3. Duncan McAlpine "Is Considering a New Alpine-L Mailing List unless Alpine-L Becomes More Public for People to Read Postings but NOT Being Aloud to Post to Alpine-L Mailing List unless They Are a Subscriber" Harry Dewey has made a serious suggestion to the members of ARGON (Alpine-L Rock Garden Online Nurseries) to the effect that, if they really want an automated list AND a willing listowner, Duncan McAlpine might offer them both. In a response earlier than this one, McAlpine turned the suggestion down, on the ground that his wife "would kill" him. Not surprisingly, he has not acknowledged the confidence shown in his abilities by my initiative, but he does seem to have had a change of heart (see below). The members of our Copyright Committee are pondering whether or not the quotation represents a catachrestic threat to start a rival list (similar to Alpine-L, but, we hope, not with the same title), or whether he intends to continue copying our postings (as cited in OH900-2, above), at least some of which were reprinted by him in violation of the copyright laws of the United States and other countries, i. e. without the permission of the copyright owners (the authors). If McAlpine intends merely to start a rival rock garden mailing list, we wish him well. Competition can be a very healthy thing. He is also welcome to reprint as much as he wishes from Alpine-L provided he first gets specific permission from each author, and attributes the permission and the source completely (and accurately). Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:09:56 +0000 From: Duncan McAlpine <mcalpin@eskimo.com> To: Harry Dewey <harryd@CAPACCESS.ORG> CC: "Carlo A. Balistrieri" <cabalist@FacStaff.Wisc.edu>, "Seeds, Duncan McAlpine, listowner" <Seeds-Digest-Request@eskimo.com>, Alpine-L-Request@HEARN.nic.SURFnet.nl, AsleS@Online.no, BBBrobst@aol.com, Bedrock.Gardeners@Sympatico.ca, MrBill@Sojourn.com, DianaR@Teleport.com, Phlox@xs4all.NL, DSteele@cyberstore.ca, bdn7458@mailbag.com, ElizabethMann@baka.com, bishop@Cot.net, Guerin@ix.netcom.com, Kellyo@efn.org, GeneBush@netpointe.com, Swell@erols.com, MNicholls@Juno.com, nargsBS@efn.org, PMottola@TheBrain.cz.it, Favorites2@aol.com, Avent@plantdel.com, Alpine-L@Richters.com, bob@rmrp.com, GusGus@cdsnet.net, Vivaces@Sympatico.ca, Hornig@Oswego.Oswego.edu, Silkpurs@GreyNet.net, GreenSGF@mulberry.com, srpn@wave.net, BarryG@Slip.net, yogt@mail.kiva.net, Jadare@accessus.net, Templeton@Albury.net.au, Tony_Mace@Mace.demon.co.uk, LibEvans@acs.eku.edu, GarNorth@Istar.ca, Stewart@LivingOnLine.com, mdenee@vaxxine.com, melmoth@DMCI.NET, ExoticLvs@aol.com Subject: ARGON What is the discussion of ARGON group? Is it out of scope of propagation? How many people would it take? Can your postings filter within Seeds-list? http://www.eskimo.com/~mcalpin/seed.html I did create all those homepages and I own them. I am in the process of considering a new Alpine-l mailing list unless Alpine-l becomes more public for people to read postings but NOT being aloud to post to ALPINE-l mailing list unless they are a subscriber. (I hope you understand?) I and many others would like to see a database of all the garden mailing list open to the public to view. In addition, a search engine will be available to scan only the garden mailing list for requested keywords. This would be a great resource. The current TEAM members are on http://www.mallorn.com/lists I dont own mallorn, I just beleive in the proposed project and understand the rewards for the internet users. I want the public to know, I am a team player and want to share my mailing list database. Harry Dewey [had written]: > > Dear Friends: I need to apologize for my error in thinking that the Mount > Tahoma web site was Duncan McAlpine's. I should have suggested that the > group contact Rick Lupp. Lupp has been kind enough at his Mount Tahoma > web site, to host web pages for a variety of groups, most of them alpine > garden societies. The site that Carlo is calling Rick Lupp's (and > which I thought was McAlpine's) is, in my opinion, one of the very best > alpine garden sites, and not at all just a nursery site. In any case, I > didn't suggest that the ARGON group get > onto a web site; what I suggested was that I thought (and still think) > that Duncan McAlpine might be very glad to set up an automated > mailinglist for the ARGON group. As for needing a listowner, I think > McAlpine would probably be very glad to be your listowner; he has been a > gracious host on Seeds. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. It wouldn't > do any harm to ask him. > > Harry > > On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Carlo A. Balistrieri [had written]: > > > >I ask this because if someone doesn't volunteer, then it obviously doesn't > > >get done. Leaving us with two options, to remain as we are or to form a > > >nursery group on AlpineL. > > > > As I understand it Mt. Tahoma is a site that McAlpine put together for Rick > > Lupp, proprietor of Mt. Tahoma nursery. It is not McAlpine's site. > > > > Given the nature of our discussion and the protective nature of many of the > > Alpine-L members, I would suggest we stay off of Alpine-L. I don't know how > > we could function as a group on the list. Much of our discussion deals with > > other than "alpine" topics. > > > > Assuming we don't grow too much larger, I like the way things are now. The > > volume of mail being generated is not overwhelming and a list brings whole > > new problems. > > > > Carlo > > > > Carlo A. Balistrieri, J.D. Email: CABalist@facstaff.wisc.edu > > P.O. Box 327 > > Ashippun, WI 53003-0327 > > U.S.A. > > Voice: 414.569.1902 Telefax: same number, please call ahead. > > > -- Duncan McAlpine, Federal Way, WA Why buy plants when you can grow them yourself.....? http://www.eskimo.com/~mcalpin/ http://www.eskimo.com/~mcalpin/pumkin.html *** We are very glad to have McAlpine's assurances that he is a team player. We trust that this includes compliance with the copyright laws of the United States and other countries in which Alpine-L operates. The Alpine-L listowners want to share their database, too, but only with the approval of those who write its contents. --HD & LP ^----------------------------------------------------------------------- OH900-4. A Letter from [the] Mallorn Computing [company]: The following letter has been received from the Chief Executive Officer of Mallorn Computing; it was sent to the members of Alpine-L's Copyright Committee, whose names most likely were forwarded to Mr. Lindsey by Duncan McAlpine. No previous correspondence took place between any member of our Copyright Committee and Mr. Lindsey. From: Christopher Lindsey <lindsey@mallorn.com> Subject: Alpine-L copyright To: harryd@capaccess.org Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:45:16 -0600 (CST) Cc: Cryptantha@aol.com, CABalist@facstaff.wisc.edu, jimmcclem@aol.com, ParsonT@peak.org Gentlemen, I was unaware that you were also involved in the complications resulting from Mallorn Computing's hypermail archive. Here is a note that was sent out to several other list owners two days ago. Please accept my apologies for any difficulties incurred, and feel free to contact me with questions or replies. Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There appears to have been some confusion generated by a publically visible page on my web site, for which I would like to apologize. I did not intend to make the archives that I am keeping of various mailing lists public without the approval of the representative list's owner. I was lax in my access control since I didn't think the page had been announced, but sure enough, there was a link to it from the page for the mailing list that I maintain (prairie@mallorn.com). Anyhow, the archives were originally generated so that multiple people within my company could browse the archives without having so many different subscriptions to the mailing list. Eventually I was hoping to finish a search engine that would allow searching across all lists for various subjects, provided I had approval from the appropriate list owners. It seems that the web page has been publically announced in several mailing lists and others are nosing about to see what's up. I have no problems whatsoever with keeping these archives public, and actually would encourage it. I have trimmed down the list of available mailing lists to only those that were publically announced or have already been contacted. Lists will be added as owners are contacted. Please let me know if you would like your lists to be added or removed from this archive. It isn't meant to supercede any existing archives, but rather to compliment. I really think that this could be an invaluable service provided to the horticultural community on the web. Anyhow, please contact me with any issues/concerns. Thank you, Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Lindsey lindsey@mallorn.com CEO / President Mallorn Computing *** Alpine-L's Copyright Committee is in the process of composing responses to both McAlpine and Lindsey, and would be glad to consider members' views before sending out these letters. Write immediately to one or more members of the Copyright Committee, or to Alpine-L-Request@nic.surfnet.com At the present time, Mallorn Computing is publishing the full text of all of Alpine-L's daily postings without having asked anyone's permission, let alone having secured it, in violation of copyright law. Each posting is also stripped of almost all of the source-header (Alpine-L) execept the "message id" portion in which the origin of the posting is most obscured. (this portion written on Feb 16) -HD & LP ^----------------------------------------------------------------- OH900-5. Letter from Annette McAlpine. "This message was originally submitted by anetmac@ESKIMO.COM to the ALPINE-L list at NIC.SURFNET.NL. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, ignore it, or repost an edited copy" --Surfnet Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 06:04:03 -0500 (EST) From: Harry Dewey <harryd@CapAccess.org> To: "Annette McAlpine, Tacoma WA, Zone 7-8; Alpine-L Member since March 1996" <AnetMac@Eskimo.com> Dear Mrs. McAlpine: Thank you for your posting (below). Although it is out of scope as a direct posting to Alpine-L, I will be happy to include it in a special Copyright Issue of OmniHorti that we will be posting on Alpine-L today or tomorrow. Thank you for submitting it. With all good wishes, Harry Dewey ------------------ Original message (ID=395112) (42 lines) -------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:15:22 +0000 From: Annette McAlpine <anetmac@eskimo.com> To: Alpine-L the Electronic Rock Garden Society <ALPINE-L@NIC.SURFNET.NL> CC: lindsey@mallorn.com, mcalpin@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alpine Reference Literature Did you know that Alpine-l could archive this mailing list, it would provide an abundant amount of resources which no one could compare. My son has allowed Mallorn Horticultural Computing Systems to archive his Propagation Mailing list on their server. Other garden mailing list are following the same footsteps as a single source URL to review garden mailing list on the NET. In the future Mallorn plans on having a searchable engine to scan only the garden mailing list to find your requested data. My son tells me this is a great idea, so I guess it is. I am just learning so much by reading all these Alpine-l posting and now I have found a new resource. Hopefully Alpine-l will archive their mailing list on Mallorn in the future. If not, it is only a loss to those reader trying to understand about that specific species they are trying to find, if a search engine is available. What do you think about an Alpine-l archiving the mailing list? Outsiders could only read and post a reply response to the subject author. Give it a try and review the current members of Mallorn Horticultural Computing Systems: http://www.mallorn.com/lists -- Annette McAlpine Tacoma WA USA *** Once again, it appears that Mrs. McAlpine's son has demonstrated his ability as a team player, i. e. as captain of the team, calling the signals. On the Alpine-L team, with respect to their own work, anyhow, our players (our authors) will continue to own the rights to their work, and the listowners are dedicated to that proposition. In recommending McAlpine recently to the members of ARGON as a "gracious" host on *Seeds*, I had forgotten that early on he gave Alpine-L Copyright Committee a depressing view of his respect for one author's rights. Perhaps I thought he had learned something from that experience. Anyhow, I apologize for having made the recent recommendation. I hope EYE've learned something from all this. --HD ^----------------------------------------------------------------- OH900-6. Letter from Nancy Swell. This message was originally submitted by swell@EROLS.COM to the ALPINE-L list at NIC.SURFNET.NL. Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:10:15 -0500 To: alpine-l@nic.surfnet.nl From: nancy swell <swell@erols.com> Subject: open mailing lists I am sending this to Alpine-L, because I think that this is a problem that needs to be addressed by our membership. I am adding my voice to [others']. I publish not only my internet address, but also my actual residence because I think it is pertinent to what we are doing, and because I have a lot of faith in the gardening community. No, I certainly do not want this thrown open to the general public and to any "crazy" who just might be breezing by and notes all of the addresses that are available. This is a list by subscription. We do listen to each other, and prove it sometimes by arguing vehemently on one subject or another. But basically we all have in common the fact that we are passionately interested in plants and how to grow them. A lot of us are downright opinionated, but let's face it, if I had to choose where I would find my friends and the people I can trust, it would start right here. I for one, think that it takes a special person to be a gardener. Is there a greater act of faith than planting a seed? Yes, let's make this easy to find, and provide information to those who want it, and particularly help novices find their way, but we want to reach those who want to garden, not the ones who are just cruising the web. .... Nancy [McAlpine wrote:] > >I and many others would like to see a database of all the garden > >mailing list open to the public to view. In addition, a search engine will > >be available to scan only the garden mailing list for requested keywords. > >This would be a great resource. > > >****Duncan, are you saying open to any crazy who happens upon the site???? > >No, thank you!!! I don't want my name and address open to some of the > >weirdos who operate out there!!! We had the same idea surface on the > >daylily list, and all the women wanted NO part of it. I hope that I am > >misunderstanding what you are proposing! [Name withheld, as this was > >not posted on Alpine-L itself, but on one of the other Alpine-L sponsored lists] Nancy Swell | "I have the receipt for fern seed" 505 Baldwin Road | "I walk invisible" Richmond, VA 23229 USA | Henry IV, Act 1 Zone 7 - min. 0 (-18 C), max. 100+ (38 C), NARGS, AFS, BPS, HPS, RHS swell@erols.com ^---------------------------------------------------------------- ************************************************* END OF THIS ISSUE OF OMNIHORTI. Alpine-L's Web Site http://www.peak.org/~parsont/rockgard/ Alpine-L, the Electronic Rock Garden Society Louise Parsons & Harry Dewey, active listowners Eric Gouda, quiet listowner <Alpine-L-Request@Hearn.nic.surfnet.NL> Please, write to active listowners at the above address To join Alpine-L, send the message INFO to the above address ****************************************************-- END included message
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