Re: rhodies & blackberries

Thanks so much for this long treatise on dealing with clay soil, Marge.  If
I only knew "then" what I'm starting to learn now.  My plants from 3 years
ago are mostly doing OK, but I know some of the underground is intense clay.

Where do YOU buy a truck load of fine chip pine bark mulch?  I just got 4 cu
yards of mulch, which is chopped up bark of some kind, but I don't know what
kind.

Thanks again--I'll be referring to your information for many a year.

Diann

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PRIMROSES [s*@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of
> Marge Talt
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:44 PM
> To: shadegardens@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SG] rhodies & blackberries
>
>
> Well, if the plants are doing well, don't worry about it and leave
> them be.  If they are not doing well, dig them up and replant.
>
> Gypsum is too expensive for me to use in the quantities that would be
> needed to actually make a difference in my clay soil.  Sprinkling it
> on top of the clay isn't going to help much at all - you'd need to
> dig it in.  If you dig in copious quantities of organic material,
> including fine chip pine bark mulch that you can buy by the bag or
> truck load, you will find your clay turning to decent soil in a very
> few years.
>
> You can also simply cover raw ground with wood chips and let them rot
> for a few years and plant right in them.  Plants will send their
> roots down into the clay if they want to.  Best, if possible, to dig
> or rototill the soil before piling on the chips, but if you can't do
> it, chips about 2 feet deep will rot down to a nice 8 or 10 inches of
> humus in three or four years.  If you pile the chips somewhere and
> wait for them to rot, then you can spread the humus and plant in it
> immediately.  I find it needs added nitrogen and is rather neutral in
> pH, but plants adore it.  You can often get woodchips free from tree
> service companies who would otherwise have to pay a dump fee to dump
> them - if you've got spare space for a woodchip pile, it's a great
> thing to have.
>
> Adding "top soil" may or may not do your native soil any good.
> Depends on what that topsoil consists of and some sold is pretty much
> garbage.  Much better to add a bag of fine chip mulch, IMO.
>
> For beds that are already planted in perennials, just wait until you
> need to dig and divide or decide to move something and then heavily
> amend the bare spot before you replant.  If you keep this up for
> several years, your soil will change in texture and become quite
> decent.
>
> I've made decent soil out of pure clay subsoil for many years by
> adding a *lot* of organic material - compost, rotted woodchips, pine
> bark mulch, compost, manure, leaf mould, rotted sawdust, whatever you
> can get your hands on - what you want is something with a fair amount
> of texture to it to provide air spaces in the clay and improve the
> tilth.
>
> By a *lot*, I'm talking a minimum of a full wheelbarrow load of
> organic material to a 4' x 4' area.  Double digging is even better
> and with double the amount of organic material - one load for the top
> spit of soil and one for the bottom.  And, add more if the soil
> texture does not improve enough with one load.  I prefer a digging
> fork for working clay soil to a spade; much easier to penetrate the
> hard soil,  break up the clods and incorporate the organic material
> evenly.
>
> Clay is often rich in minerals and simply only lacks organic
> material.  It also lacks air spaces, which are very important to
> plant root life.  You can also add fine gravel - pea gravel, granite
> chips - or coarse builder's sand.  You do not want to add a fine
> textured sand to clay soil as "fine texture" is half of clay soil's
> problem in the first place.  You always want to add organic material
> with sand; sand by itself + clay = bricks:-)
>
> With heavy clay soil, it is better to dig over an area where you
> intend to plant something like a woody plant instead of simply
> digging a hole, which tends to have compacted sides from the digging
> activity that help create the 'bath tub' effect and discourage plant
> roots from penetrating the soil.  If you fork over a, say 5' x 5'
> area to plant a 5 gal. shrub, you will be giving the plant a chance
> to get its roots into the native soil.  Some current wisdom says it
> is best not to amend soil for trees and shrubs, but I always figure
> improving soil over a wide area around the plant couldn't hurt.  You
> want to penetrate the soil the full depth of your digging fork - or
> one spit or about a foot if at all possible.  If the soil is full of
> roots that make turning it over impossible, at least get your fork in
> and rock it back and forth to loosen things up.
>
> If your only recourse is digging a single hole, make sure you take
> your digging fork and break up the sides of the hole so they are not
> smooth, but are rough with cracks and holes in them and loosen the
> bottom of it as much as possible; create fissures so water will drain
> out of the hole.
>
> You need to continually amend soil by keeping a mulch on it and
> adding organic material when you dig or plant something.  Chopped
> leaves are a great mulch  - it's what old Ma Nature uses.
>
> Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland
> mtalt@clark.net
> Editor:  Gardening in Shade
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> ----------
> > From: Diann Barbee Thoma <diannthoma@EARTHLINK.NET>
> > Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:45 PM
> >
> > So what's a gardener to do if 3 years ago she created sink holes
> all around
> > her shade gardens??
> >
> > Also, I've been adding gypsum to my amendment soil (with top soil,
> compost,
> > and sharp sand), and occasionally going  back and sprinkling some
> more
> > around where it's particularly clay-like.  Is anyone familiar with
> how much
> > gypsum one needs to condition heavy clay soil, and how long it take
> it to
> > make a difference?  Do you do it every year, twice a year, or??
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Fear in Champaign
>
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