Hydrangea...vines growing thru shrubs/trees

 Cindy,

 My experience with H. a. petiolaris (climbing hydrangea) is that it
 can take 10 years or more to grow 15 feet tall and mine took nearly
 that long to bloom from a small plant about a foot and a half to two
 feet tall when planted.

 If your green ash is a large tree, I do not believe this vine will
 harm it.  It doesn't twine - at least mine doesn't, but grows more
or
 less straight up and as it matures, it puts out 'arms' - branches
 that extend out two or three feet, perpendicular (more or less) from
 the main trunk of the vine (and the tree it's growing on).

 Now, the tree that mine is growing on got hit by lightening and I
 thought it was killed, so had it whacked off about 20 feet in the
air
 to act as a support for this vine.  Ha!  NOTHING, even a direct
 lightening strike, can kill a black locust (Robinia
 pseudoacacia)...blinking thing has put out 3 branches near the top -
 too high up for me to prune them off...not exactly aesthetically
 pleasing, so I avoid looking up at them when possible:-)

 So, I do not know how this vine behaves when it reaches a major
 branch.  It could be that it would decide to grow out a tree branch
 and it could be that it would simply continue up the main trunk.

 While this hydrangea is capable of growing to great height - 80' or
 so - and probably capable of blocking a certain amount of sunlight
 from a tree, if the tree is old and very large, I do not think it
 would kill it - at least not in most of our lifetimes....these are
 not fast growing vines.

 I have had trees blown down when their crowns were full of wild
grape
 vine - a pernicious weed around here - so rampant vines are quite
 capable of harming a tree in this way.

 The simple fact of the hydrangea growing up the trunk of the tree
 will do the tree no harm at all.  The roots of a hydrangea will not
 compete with tree roots, which travel out beyond the diameter of the
 crown of the tree in search of nutrients and water....it's the
 hydrangea who might needs some extra feed and water because of tree
 root competition.

 As for a list of vines and who is safe to plant on what.

 IMO, one should never plant a vine to grow up  a tree unless the
tree
 is fully mature and NOT a tremendously valuable specimen.

 Planting Clematis to grow through shrubs or small trees is a
 different story because most all Clematis benefit from some type of
 pruning at some point in their careers, if only to clean out dead
 vines and debris.  Therefore, they can be kept in check sufficiently
 so that they don't smother the host shrub.

 I would never, never plant Hall's honeysuckle (Lonicera japonica
 'Halliana') on ANYTHING unless I wanted to kill the host - that's a
 twiner and a vicious weed - will strangle anything in its path given
 the opportunity.  Other members of the honeysuckle family are not as
 rampant, but you need to research your chosen child so you know how
 it grows.

 I would NEVER plant any wisteria to grow up any tree.  Confine this
 vine to a trellis or the side of a structure.  They will bring a
tree
 down in time.

 I would be very leery of planting any grape (Vitis spp.) to grow up
a
 tree...no matter how lovely it (the grape) is nor how much I wanted
 it nor how big the tree was.   These are vines that can grow trunks
 as big around as your arm.  When they get going they are
 extraordinarily hard to control if they get beyond reach of pruning
 shears.

 You need to watch the lovely Silver Lace Vine (Polygonum aubertii) -
 it can cover a barn very quickly.  I had one growing up a very old
 scrub pine once.  Was fine as the pine wasn't worth anything.
 Unfortunately, a big storm caught the vine like a sail and the pine
 came down and the vine did not survive...rather liked that vine.
 Would not plant it to grow up any tree unless the host was rather
 remote from other trees and there was no chance for the vine to
 travel to another tree via tree branches or from being able to
extend
 itself across a small gap between trees.

 Although I do not grow it and it is not going to be hardy much north
 of zone 8, the lovely rose, R. 'Kiftsgate', is one that you'd need
to
 think twice about - believe the specimen at Kiftsgate in the UK is
 something like 100 feet tall - massive.  But, this is an unusual
 climbing rose - most would not get this large.

 Key here, is to think about the growth habits of the vine and its
 potential host.  Any vine that is said to be 'vigorous' or 'fast
> growing' is one you really want to watch out for.  Any tree less
than
 35 or 40 feet tall and less than a foot in trunk diameter is too
 small to host a vine, other than Clematis or something that does not
 get large and is not vigorous, unless you care nothing for the tree.

 Weed trees like box elder (Acer negundo) are great hosts for vines
 and there's always the hope they *will* kill the tree:-)  At least
 that's my take on box elder.  Some people actually like them and pay
 money for them...astounds me.  The aforementioned black locust are
 also good candidates for vine hosting as they are practically
 indestructible and weeds in their own right.

 When you grow vines through shrubs, it is a matter of keeping an eye
 on them and applying the clippers judiciously - most are easy to
 control because they are not going to get 25 feet in the air.  As
far
 as your Clematis are concerned, just watch them and make sure they
 don't completely cover the canopies of your lilacs....

 Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland
 mtalt@clark.net
 Editor:  Gardening in Shade
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 ----------
> > From: Cindy Johnson <Cidjohnson@AOL.COM>
> > Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 10:38 AM
> >
> > Hi Marge and all,
> >
> > I have a Climbing Hydrangea (H. anomala petiolaris) "growing" up
my
> big Green
> > Ash (Fraxinus pennsylvanica 'Marshall's Seedless'?).  After 2
years
> it's only
> > about 2 feet tall.  I have heard it takes 3 or so years before it
> takes off
(snip)
> 1.) Is my
> > tree in danger of being strangled?  2.) Is it the lack of
sunlight
> that is
> > hard on trees when vines grow up them?
> >
> > It would be very helpful to have a list of vines that can safely
> grow up
> > trees and shrubs (safe for the tree and shrubs, that is) and
vines
> that would
(snip)
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