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HYB: SAGE:: some general comments

First let me offer some apology for an extended silence.  I have been rather under the weather--mostly expressed as "Loss of Will"--as in "I *will* get such and such done today."  The intentions don't get carried out.  In particular,  the garden, especially the iris, have suffered.  As a result I have asked most of the various suppliers to hold my orders until next year.  I have an awful lot of ground prep and moving things to get done--and *none* of it is happening.
 
I've been reading the posts, often many days after posted, and rarely in order.  From the sounds of things most of you have made very substantial progress this year.  I am very glad to hear this.
 
The comments about 'Eagle Control' have been interesting.  Its "dark top" _expression_, plus the extension into the fall of the bluish blush, is a pattern I would like to understand genetically.  Keith Keppel among others has put a lot of effort into the type, the best of which may be 'Wintry Sky.'  I'm sorry I did not check it for BS.  Even though it goes in the opposite direction, concerning form, ruffle and such, as that which Bill sees as more desirable--and, Bill, you are not alone in the preferences expressed, but such do not currently attract the plurality of the buying public--'Wintry Sky' might be a remarkable parent combined with 'Eagle Control' and others of similar character.
 
Since 'Crystal Gazer' and 'Paris Fashion' both show BS or BSE to a pronounced degree I would think they might well be target breeders.  Both also, incidentally, have a certain amount of "dark top" character.  Our best pollen sources may tone down the exhuberant ruffling.  The best showing of SA character may be on flowers that are not so extreme in ruffle.  I think the various photos of 'Solar Fire' suggest it is just about perfect in terms of balance of SA against other flower form character--at least for my taste.  It is also extraordinarily beautiful--with or without the flounce.  That is a target quality I think we would do well to keep in mind.
 
Not a single one of my attempted SAGE and related crosses produced pods.  Very few others succeeded in setting pods that have not had the stalks rot out from under them.  Even so, I don't know where (or when) the crosses will get planted.
 
Christopherson's 'In A Heartbeat' bloomed beautifully here.  It was a very welcome garden subject, and, I might add, had the gentle ruffle Bill mentions.  All in all, it was a very satisfactory plant and flower.
 
'Devonshire Cream' is one I like very much, and like Bill's experience with it, I saw modest horns on some of the best early blooms.  Attempts to cross it with 'Swingtown' failed, as did several attempts made with some 'Vienna Waltz' seedlings.  I even tried selfing it--to no avail.
 
Similarly, 'Flute Enchantee' which normally has abundant pollen produced little or none.  Crosses attempted on it also failed.
 
Most things produced poor pollen if any, and those that did usually had the pollen spoiled by rain.
 
The information that 'Romantic Evening' as an SA parent was "poor" interest me, as the majority of my current seedlings have RE ancestry.  May I ask, if anyone of you know, how or what is meant by "poor'?  Was it the quality of the seedlings, or was it the lack of SA traits.  If the latter, that information is genetically significant for our SAGE cross planning.  Failure to obtain SA traits in crosses with certain cv's says a *lot*--just as significant as the other extreme--"many" or "a large percentage."  We need to be sharply on the lookout for both kinds of anecdotal information.
 
Failure to produce SA seedlings in a cross *may* indicate a "normalizer" or "inhibitor" situation, one which I have come to suspect exists.
 
The one other comment I want to make is that which concerns the effect climate/temperature/growing conditions are having on SA _expression_.  That is going to make SA progeny counting results nearly impossible to combine, and are not variables we can easily control, if at all.   I just wish there were a way to grow *all* our specifically SAGE crosses in one place.  Anyone in good SA country have about three acres and free labor available?
 
I hope you realize that was a joke--I just *wish* it were not.
 
Attached is a photo of a seedling that has three of the varieties mentioned above in its ancestry.  It is from Power Woman: (Swingtown x Romantic Evening) X Fogbound.  The seedling is tagged as "R 19-1,' and is far superior to what it showed in its maiden bloom last year.  The "04" and the "a" just identify which photo and are not part of the seedling's designation
 
Neil Mogensen  z 7  western NC mountains

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