Re: HYB: SAGE:: some general comments

Neil A Mogensen wrote:
First let me offer some apology for an extended silence.  I have been rather under the weather--mostly expressed as "Loss of Will"--as in "I *will* get such and such done today."  The intentions don't get carried out.  In particular,  the garden, especially the iris, have suffered.  As a result I have asked most of the various suppliers to hold my orders until next year.  I have an awful lot of ground prep and moving things to get done--and *none* of it is happening.
We had  at least one person on the "disabled list" most of last year. Like you , this year will only be for getting things back to normal...
  Since 'Crystal Gazer' and 'Paris Fashion' both show BS or BSE to a pronounced degree I would think they might well be target breeders.  Both also, incidentally, have a certain amount of "dark top" character.  Our best pollen sources may tone down the exhuberant ruffling.  The best showing of SA character may be on flowers that are not so extreme in ruffle.  I think the various photos of 'Solar Fire' suggest it is just about perfect in terms of balance of SA against other flower form character--at least for my taste.  It is also extraordinarily beautiful--with or without the flounce.  That is a target quality I think we would do well to keep in mind.
 
Burseens ICE FOR BRICE  might be an example of why balence is needed, especially in paler tones. Its beautiful with its heavy lacing and ruffling with a heavily laced polyflounced rosette but you do have to look at it closely to appreciate all the details. I hope to post some photos of extended BSE on APRIL JEWEL which should put it on the recommended list.
Not a single one of my attempted SAGE and related crosses produced pods.  Very few others succeeded in setting pods that have not had the stalks rot out from under them.
Many of us are off to a rough start but I harvested the first seed pod [(SUPERSTITION X SKY HOOKS) X FIREBEARD] so we we are started.  

The information that 'Romantic Evening' as an SA parent was "poor" interest me, as the majority of my current seedlings have RE ancestry.  May I ask, if anyone of you know, how or what is meant by "poor'?  Was it the quality of the seedlings, or was it the lack of SA traits.
The lack of SA traits. If I remember Mike Suttons comments correctly and add our own expierence  that would be 300+ seedlings with no SA. I do wish Mike would change his mind about introcing his reblooming version of RE.
  
The one other comment I want to make is that which concerns the effect climate/temperature/growing conditions are having on SA _expression_.  That is going to make SA progeny counting results nearly impossible to combine, and are not variables we can easily control, if at all.
WE may have learned that SA traits are related to the environment in much the same way as reblooming. I consider that to be very important. If (Susy x Jim) is flounced in z10, horned in z8 and NSA in zone 6 we know it is a SA but needs to be crossed with (Igor x Helga) which is an SA in Z6 to breed better consistency.
  I just wish there were a way to grow *all* our specifically SAGE crosses in one place.  Anyone in good SA country have about three acres and free labor available?
 
I hope you realize that was a joke--I just *wish* it were not.
 
Three acres? sure. Labor? No Way! bring your own pick axe.

Understanding Beard Spine Extensions as indicators is a major piece of knowledge. That fact could have been and has been missed in thousands of crosses. Bless the folks that put " a strong midrib is all important" in the judges handbook. This kept  SA potential in new introductions.

I feel we learned some major factors about SA's this year. Knowledge that will help us focus our efforts in a more effective manner to refine our methods for the fine details necessary to disclose genetic properties.
Attached is a photo of a seedling that has three of the varieties mentioned above in its ancestry.  It is from Power Woman: (Swingtown x Romantic Evening) X Fogbound.  The seedling is tagged as "R 19-1,' and is far superior to what it showed in its maiden bloom last year.  The "04" and the "a" just identify which photo and are not part of the seedling's designation
 
Neil Mogensen  z 7  western NC mountain

Neil; It is hard to tell from the photo but it looks like you are getting close to that color variation you have been breeding for?

Michael m.
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