Re: More on Monstera dilacerata

Dear Michael,

 

I’m by no means an authority on Monstera, and you must check with Tom on this, but reading through Madison’s synonymy and excluding dilacerata and its homotypical synonyms AND assuming that the description he gives is truly only a single species (far from the case in many of his taxa) AND allowing for the fact that Madison’s revision covers barely a third of the species that probably exist in Monstera AND there are also some blunders in the work, the next available name is indeed M. pinnatipartita.

 

Neotypified means that the all typical material cited when the name was published in destroyed (or believed so) and that a new type has been chosen to represent the taxon.

 

Very best

 

Peter

 

From: Michael Pascall [mailto:mickpascall@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 12 April, 2010 5:19 PM
To: phymatarum@googlemail.com
Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata

 

OK , so what is the species pictured as M dilacerata in Madisons revision ? Because M siltepecana mature foliage is perforated and does not look anything like the incised leaf pictured for M dilacerata there . Also pictures I have of the underneath of a mature leaf of dilacerata shows two ribs , and I am pretty certain Epipremnum pinnatum only has one .

OH I thought this was going to aroid-l but I see I am replying to you Peter ,, after reading the below , I think I am grasping this a bit now .
If neotypified means what I think , that is it is now a species and not a synonym . So is it now Monstera pinnatipartita ?

Michael Pascall,


From: phymatarum@googlemail.com
To: Steve@ExoticRainforest.com; Thomas.Croat@mobot.org; phymatarum@googlemail.com; S.Mayo@kew.org
CC: mickpascall@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:00:37 +0800

Dear All,

 

Monstera dilacerata is DEFINITELY conspecific with Epipremnum pinnatum. I sunk it!

 

Scindapsus dilaceratus C. Koch & Sello, Ind. Sem. Hort. Bot. Berol., App. (1853) 5. — Monstera dilacerata (C. Koch & Sello) C. Koch, Ind. Sem. Hort. Berol., App. (1855) 5. — Tornelia  dilacerata (C. Koch & Sello) Schott, Prodr. Syst. Aroid. (1860) 356. — Type: Cultivated Berlin Botanic Garden (B† holo; K iso), syn. nov.

 

 

The above is cut and pasted from: Boyce (1998): The  Genus  Epipremnum  Schott (Araceae–Monsyeroideae–Monstereee) in  West and Central  Malesia, Blumea 43: 183–213

 

Very best

 

Peter

 

 

From: ExoticRainforest [mailto:Steve@ExoticRainforest.com]
Sent: Monday, 12 April, 2010 12:03 PM
To: Tom Croat; Peter Boyce; Simon Mayo
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata

 

Tom, I tried for several days to help Mic Pascall understand that Monstera dilacerata is no longer an accepted name with little success.  He wrote to me several times this week and appears to feel this plant is in fact a Neotropical plant and as far as I know Mike Madison may have observed it.in the wild.  Mike at least does show an illustration of it on one page of his revision along with a discussion and TROPICOS still has it as a good name.  CATE says it is now a synonym of Epipremnum pinnatum as does Mike Grayum in the quote which Mic used on Aroid l (in red below).  That quote came from MOBOT:  http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/research/edge/jan98/jan98not.shtml

I realize Mic feels he is right but unless someone is about to reveal something new, Monstera dilecerata appears to have been described from a cultured specimen, perhaps incorrectly. 

I started to respond to his Aroid l post but since I am obviously not an authority on any of this, a response that would best come from you, Pete (since he known Rhapidophora) or Simon.  I just wanted you to know where he got his quote since he sent it to me this past week trying to explain I was wrong (maybe I am).  I did a major search until I found the source.

I am copying this to Pete and Simon since I'd really like to see this one resolved.  The plant I have as Monstera siltepecana is the one that started all of this.  My plant was ID'd by Dylon Hannon as a juvenile but has grown substantially since then.  It is developing fenestrations but so far has not begun to morph.  The blades are about 10 inches long.  If my plant is not M. siltepecana I will remove the page from the web.

You looked at this once before but were unsure of the juvenile photos.

http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Monstera%20siltepecana.%20pc.html

See you in less than two weeks with Joep in tow!

Steve


Michael Pascall wrote:

Did a few more searches today for this sp.
And found it is still a valid species on GRIN ..

Taxon: Monstera dilacerata K. Koch

Genus: Monstera
Family: Araceae subfamily: Monsteroideae tribe: Monstereae.
Nomen number: 312844
Place of publication: A. C. H. Braun et al., App. gen. sp. nov. 5. 1855
Name verified on: 14-Oct-1987 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Last updated: 06-Nov-2006
Species priority site is: Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (MIA).


It is still listed on Tropicos as well . So goes to show you cannot believe everything you hear or read .. Is it just that it has not been updated ?

Or mistaken identity with mature foliage that got this statment ..

"The wantonly and inventively misapplied Monstera dilacerata (K. Koch & Sello) K. Koch is revealed to be a synonym of the Asian Epipremnum pinnatum  (L.) Engl., and the obscure Monstera pinnatipartita Schott is neotypified and resurrected for one of the four Costa Rican spp. included under M. dilacerata in Madison's generic revision (Contr. Gray Herb. 207: 1-100. 1977). The redundant combination Monstera dissecta (Schott) Croat & Grayum (1987) is corrected to M. dissecta (Schott) N. E. Br. ex Donn. Sm. (1899). No illustrations. "

I cannot wait for the next revision .

 

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