hort.net Seasonal photo, (c) 2006 Christopher P. Lindsey, All Rights Reserved: do not copy
articles | gallery of plants | blog | tech blog | plant profiles | patents | mailing lists | top stories | links | shorturl service | tom clothier's archive0
 Navigation
Articles
Gallery of Plants
Blog
Tech Blog
Plant Profiles
Patents
Mailing Lists
    FAQ
    Netiquette
    Search ALL lists
    Search help
    Subscription info
Top Stories
Links
sHORTurl service
Tom Clothier's Archive
 Top Stories
Disease could hit Britain's trees hard

Ten of the best snowdrop cultivars

Plant protein database helps identify plant gene functions

Dendroclimatologists record history through trees

Potato beetle could be thwarted through gene manipulation

Hawaii expands coffee farm quarantine

Study explains flower petal loss

Unauthorized use of a plant doesn't invalidate it's patent

RSS story archive

Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum

  • Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum
  • From: a san juan kalim1998@yahoo.com
  • Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 19:21:11 -0700 (PDT)

"Leaf shape or leaf lobe shape/length play a VERY
minor 
role in the determination of species."

unless those characteristics somehow create
reproductive isolation of the differing forms ;-)

i've seen the leaves of those long-lobed P.
stenolobum, but have not seen any pics of the stem
area - are they similar to this?

http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2005_6_25_asj_2.jpg


--- Julius Boos <ju-bo@msn.com> wrote:

> 
> 	 <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Sent : 	Saturday, July 2, 2005 7:40 PM
> To : 	Discussion of aroids <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Subject : 	Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum
> 
> 
> Dear ALl,
> 
> I still do not think you guys understand what is
> being said---  ALL these 
> photos that are being discussed, plants with the
> longer narrower ruffled 
> leaf blades, the long FLAT leaf blades, the slightly
> shorter leaf blades 
> with or without ruffles, slightly longer lobes,
> slightly shorter lobes, ALL 
> are variations from different collections throughout
> the range of P. 
> stenolobum, a range FAR distant from where TRUE P.
> williamsii occurs.  NONE 
> of the plants being seen or discussed are a
> different species OR P. 
> williamsii.   Leaf shape or leaf lobe shape/length
> play a VERY minor role in 
> the determination of species.  ALL the plants
> pictured and being discussed 
> should or will have barrel-shaped gynociums (not
> flask-shaped as in P. 
> williamsii), ALL will have only 7-8 locules (not
> 11-12 as is found in P. 
> williamsii) and all will fall within the anterior
> leaf blade ratio of P. 
> stenolobum, so ALL will be classified as P.
> stenolobum, NOT another species, 
> and NOT P. williamsii.   If it rings your bells, or
> makes them more 
> expensive/easier to sell, knock yourself out and
> give them 'cultivar' or 
> 'var.' names, but this only confuses  the issue
> further.
> Read and understand Dr. Goncalves recent postings.
> 
> Good Growing!
> 
> Julius
> 
> >>Very nicely put!
> 
> As you say, some cultivated samples may tend to be
> those that are "extreme" samples from the wild, and
> thus are not truly representative of the "average"
> look of the species (that is, the wild population
> may
> form a  continuum of plant forms).
> 
> The pic of one of the leaves of that small plant
> called "P. williamsii" shows short lobes but with
> edges that are ruffled (and some of newer leaves
> just
> coming out are starting to get even more 'wavy'):
> 
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2005_7_1_asj_p_stenolobum_1.jpg
> 
> I looked at pics of P. stenolobum from that paper
> and
> they look similar in lobe shape to the short form -
> so
> maybe it's the "long lobe" form that needs a new
> name
> - LOL....
> 
> But, honestly, i do like the ones with longer,
> thinner
> lobes though ;-)
> 
> --- Julius Boos <ju-bo@msn.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > >From : 	a san juan <kalim1998@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To : 	Discussion of aroids
> ><aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >Sent : 	Friday, July 1, 2005 9:21 PM
> >To : 	Discussion of aroids <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >Subject : 	Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum
> >
> >Dear Friends,
> >
> >Eduardo has informed us of exactly what the case is
> >w/ these two very different and 'good' species (see
> his letter of
> >30th, 8.18 pm, addressed to 'Tom" (Dr. Croat), but
> allow me one more 
> >explanation
> >on what might have and may still be causing some
> confusion.
> >
> >[By the way, the leaf ratios asked for on these two
> >species are---"Anterior division (ratio
> length/width)
> >   P. williamsii--1 - 1.5.
> >P. stenolobum 2.1 - 3.3.
> >(these are copied from Dr. Gonclaves' paper)
> >Other critical differences that separate these two
> >species documented by Dr. Goncalves in his paper
> are--The gynoceum 
> >(immature
> >fruit) in P. stenolobum is flask-shaped, while that
> of P. williamsii is
> >barrel shaped.   The ovary of P. stenolobum has
> 11-12 locules (chambers) 
> >while
> >that of P. williamsii has only 7-8.]
> >
> >   Before Dr. Goncalves published his paper, when
> >word got out that the plant that we all had been
> refering to as P. 
> >williamsii
> >was going to be described as a new/good species,
> several collectors/growers
> >then assumed that only the plants with the ruffled
> leaf edges were this new
> >species ( P. stenolobum), and the plants with the
> not-so-long anterior 
> >lobes
> >and flat leaf blades must still be P. williamsii---
> we were wrong!    The 
> >TRUE
> >P. williamsii is a completely different species,
> seemingly not in
> >cultivation, rare in herbarium collections, and
> very different looking to
> >either one of the vars. of the now-new P.
> stenolobum, and grows FAR away
> >from all the different populations of the new P.
> stenolobum.  (see
> >Eduardo`s recent letter on this).
> >So--the plants that have a very long leaf, both the
> >ruffled and the unruffled, ALL are TRUE P.
> stenolobum.   Man ALWAYS
> >gravitates to collecting from wild populations what
> he views as the most
> >attractive or even odd members of a broard variety
> of either plants or
> >animals, it happens all the time with collectors,
> but true scientists 
> >collect
> >'down the middle', a representitive sample that
> illustrates the extremes
> >of a species.   This obviously pertains to the
> plants under discussion,
> >all seen are P. stenolobum.
> >
> >Julius
> >WPB, Florida
> >
> > >>Could you give numbers for the ratios? I'm
> >curious,
> >and glad this conversation came up.<<
> >
> >
> >--- Russ <chammer@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >The leaves on my 'stenolobum' are nowhere near as
> > >ruffled as the one in last year's Aroid show, or
> >the
> > >2 pictures I found
> > >of P. 'williamsii' in my Exotica.  But they seem
> to
> > >be the same in narrow lobe width and proportions.
> >So, these are obviously >both stenolobum with a
> > >variation in the leaf edge.  BUT, these are not
> the
> > >two opposing plants I have in mind as
> questionable.
> >The 'old williamsii' >that I'm referencing has much
> > >shorter, and wider lobes, and leaves are not as
> > >thick or stiff.  They truly do not look like the
> > >same species.  Russ>
> >_______________________________________________
> > >Aroid-l mailing list
> > >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> >
> >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>____________________________________________________
> >Yahoo! Sports
> >Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy
> Football
> >http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
> >_______________________________________________
> >Aroid-l mailing list
> >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >
> >
> 
=== message truncated ===



		
____________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Sports 
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football 
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l



Other Mailing lists | Author Index | Date Index | Subject Index | Thread Index



 © 1995-2015 Mallorn Computing, Inc.All Rights Reserved.
Our Privacy Statement