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Re: Chaos in Monstera names

  • Subject: Re: Chaos in Monstera names
  • From: brian lee <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
  • Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:00:56 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Julius, Marek, and all,

Aloha.

This explains a good deal.  Marek just posted his photos of Monstera deliciosa 'Borsigiana'( is this nomenclature technically correct?) that matches well with the plants I posted to Tom and Pete...a smaller variety of Monstera deliciosa.  I have never seen these in fruit, but I will be on the lookout for inflorescences and other diagnostic details.

I have a good grasp of Rhaphidophora tetrasperma in the vegetative state...now to see the inflorescences.  Thanks to Pete, the descriptions are a great reference.  At the end of this thread, we should have a little summary...just to clarify the collective findings.

Aloha,

Leland


--- On Tue, 7/1/08, ju-bo@msn.com <ju-bo@msn.com> wrote:

> From: ju-bo@msn.com <ju-bo@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> To: "Discussion of aroids" <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 11:56 PM
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:06:35 -0700
> > From: lbmkjm@yahoo.com
> > To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> 
> Dear Leland and Aroid Friends,
> 
> Aloha.
> Though I have not seen the photo as yet, this smaller
> selection/clone of Monstera deliciosa ''ties
> in'' to my memory of the discussion we had on this
> forum some time ago.   I believe Tom had said something
> along the lines that the large form of M. deliciosa were
> ALL from a single or a very few collections, as it (the
> larger variety/species was rare in the wild, but a simular
> or the SAME species, but in a smaller form was much more
> common in dry areas of Mexico?   The large var./form was a
> selection (I suspect) based on the edibility of its larger
> fruit?
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Aloha.
> 
> Julius
>  
> > Dear Tom and Pete,
> > 
> > Aloha.  
> > 
> > I do not want to create more chaos here,but, via my
> wife's email, I will send you photos of a Monstera?
> that superficially looks like M. deliciosa, but has blades
> only a third the size.  The photos are of a clump many
> years old and there are three or so roots per node.  I have
> never seen this in bloom...but, I'll keep an eye open
> for them now.  I have some sort of default on my server, so
> could you post these photos on Aroid-l.  My hand is holding
> a leaf and from fingertip to palm is about 6 inches.
> > 
> > Aloha,
> > 
> > Leland
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 6/30/08, Tom Croat
> <Thomas.Croat@mobot.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Tom Croat <Thomas.Croat@mobot.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> > > To: "Discussion of aroids"
> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> > > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 9:14 AM
> > > Dear Pete:
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >             I thought so and am glad that I was
> not just
> > > passing on nonsense.  I am glad that I was
> remembering
> > > correctly.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Tom
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > 
> > > From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> > > [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf
> Of Peter
> > > Boyce
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 4:16 AM
> > > To: Discussion of aroids
> > > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Hi Marek, Tom, etc.
> > > 
> > > Sorry I did pick up on the Monstera thread a bit
> earlier.
> > > Tom is correct, M. pertusa is a Rhaphidophora (R.
> pertusa).
> > > 
> > > Rhaphidophora pertusa (Roxb.) Schott, Prodr.
> Syst. Aroid.:
> > > 382. 1860; Hook.f., Fl. Brit. India 6: 546. 1893.
> - Pothos
> > > pertusus Roxb., Fl. Ind. 1: 455. 1820. - Monstera
> pertusa
> > > (Roxb.) Schott, Wiener Z. Kunst 4: 1028. 1830. -
> Scindapsus
> > > pertusus (Roxb.) Schott in H.W.Schott &
> S.L.Endlicher,
> > > Melet. Bot.: 21. 1832. - Rhaphidophora lacera
> Hassk., Flora
> > > 25(2 Beibl.): 11. 1842, nom. illeg.
> > >  
> > >             Very large, very  robust, pachycaul,
> > > heterophyllous liane to 15 m or more. Stem
> robustly terete,
> > > 3-5 cm diam., Leaves dense along most of the stem
> except the
> > > oldest portion. Petiole shallowly canaliculate,
> 15-30 cm,
> > > pulvini indistinct; petiolar sheath extending 2/3
> along the
> > > petiole, margins soon marcescent; lamina
> (juvenile)  rotund,
> > > entire, apex abrupt acute, 13 ´ 11 cm;  (adult)
> > > oblong-ovate, ovate in outline, 20-50 ´ 15-25
> cm,
> > > irregularly and asymmetrically pinnately cut with
> the
> > > incisions c. ½ way to the mid-rib and sometimes
> occurring
> > > as ovate, apex acute, base subcordate,  pinnae
> 2-5 per
> > > side. Inflorescence solitary on tips of free
> lateral
> > > shoots. Peduncle cylindric, very robust,15-18 ´
> 1.5-2 cm.
> > > Spathe oblong-ovate, cymbiform, ca. 18 ´ 8 cm,
> spreading
> > > at anthesis, thence falling, yellowish to
> somewhat pinkish
> > > tinged; spadix cylindric, ca. 10-12 ´ 2-3 cm,
> base
> > > oblique, sessile, yellow. Fruit
> hexagonal-obconical, 18 ´
> > > 5 mm, green-white stylar region sloughing to
> reveal white
> > > or yellow pulp cavity.
> > >   
> > >             Distribution. - Sri Lanka, S. India
> through
> > > N.E. Himalaya to Bangladesh, Burma and N.
> Thailand 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Pete
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: Tom Croat 
> > > To: Discussion of aroids 
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 4:52 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Marek:
> > >             Monstera friedrichsthalii is a
> synonym of A.
> > > adansonii but M. pertusa is not even a Monstera
> as I recall
> > > but rather a Rhapidophora (Pete is this not
> correct?). M.
> > > karwinskyi is a synonym of M. acuminate, not the
> other way
> > > around.  M. obliqua has lots of synonyms. 
> Madison lists 7
> > > including M. expilata Schott but I intend to
> resurrect the
> > > latter. 
> > >  
> > > Tom  
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> > > [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf
> Of Marek
> > > Argent
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:13 PM
> > > To: Discussion of aroids
> > > Subject: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> > >  
> > > Hello,
> > >  
> > > Can anyone authoritatively tell if:
> > >  
> > > M. friedrichsthalii = M. adansonii = M. pertusa
> > >  
> > > M. acuminata = M. karwinskyi
> > >  
> > > M. obliqua has no synonyms
> > >  
> > > Best
> > > Marek
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aroid-L mailing list
> > > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> > >
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l_______________________________________________
> > > Aroid-L mailing list
> > > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> > >
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aroid-L mailing list
> > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
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