Re: Lowest pinnae length as ID clincher

Hello Larry,
    I checked a few young dilatata and the base of the stipe is dark
brownish-black.  The base of the expansa stipe is also dark but the fronds
are very different even at a young age.
Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Shone" <greenlarry@ntlworld.com>
To: <ferns@hort.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ferns] Lowest pinnae length as ID clincher


> Hi Judith,
> as far as I can make out the stipe scales are a uniform plae brown colour,
> no blacl central stripe, but theyre young frojds as yet, quite small(I
> thought ferns put out full size fronds from the start!).
> Also the base of the biggest fronds stipe,near the soil level, is near
> black, not green all the way to the base like some.
> Thanks
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judith I Jones" <judith@fancyfronds.com>
> To: <ferns@hort.net>
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [ferns] Lowest pinnae length as ID clincher
>
> >     Other observations that might help you in his key:
> > Stipe scales:  "abundant, large upward-pointing scales, which densely
> > overlap each other at the base of the stipe, and in old,
well-established
> > plants these are very large and of a coarse texture.  In the majority of
> > plants, these scales have pale edges, with a conspicuous central
> dark-brown
> > lengthwise stripe, sometimes sufficiently broad to make the whole of
each
> > scale, andhence the whole base of the stipe, appear a deep shining
> > blackish-brown. The bases of the stipe scales are usually cordate-i.e.
> > hollowed and lobed either side in a heart-shaped manner.  Juvenile
fronds
> > and those arising from occasional, long creeping, ofset rhizomes,
> frequently
> > have only sparse, pale, more concolorous stipe scales, with only a few
> > darker, centrally located cells in the extreme base."  These atypical
> scales
> > have caused confusion in assigning dilatata cultivars to other species.
> > Judith I. Jones
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Shone" <greenlarry@ntlworld.com>
> > To: <ferns@hort.net>
> > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ferns] Lowest pinnae length as ID clincher
> >
> >
> > > I'm not sure how or where this fern came from, it may have been a
spore
> > that
> > > blew in and made itself at home(but why arent there others?) or a
> dormant
> > > spore present in the compost I used back in '03.
> > > Thanks for the info!
> > > Larry
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Judith I Jones" <judith@fancyfronds.com>
> > > To: <ferns@hort.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 6:51 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ferns] Lowest pinnae length as ID clincher
> > >
> > >
> > > > ello Larry,
> > > >     You are most welcome.  It always helps wehn you have an idea
where
> a
> > > > plant originated as at least you can start with the possibles before
> > > adding
> > > > in the improbables.  It does make identifying rogue sporlings that
> > appear
> > > in
> > > > spores from spore exchanges an interesting challenge.  I deal with
> many
> > > such
> > > > species in many genera continually.
> > > > Judith
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Larry Shone" <greenlarry@ntlworld.com>
> > > > To: <ferns@hort.net>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:05 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ferns] Lowest pinnae length as ID clincher
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for that Judith :)
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Judith I Jones" <judith@fancyfronds.com>
> > > > > To: <ferns@hort.net>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:38 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [ferns] Lowest pinnae length as ID clincher
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Larry,
> > > > > >     The size of the basiscopic pinnule is a distinguishing
feature
> > > used
> > > > to
> > > > > > help determine Dryopteris species from one another but is not
> > > > necessarily
> > > > > > indicative that a fern is a Dryopteris.
> > > > > > Judith I. Jones
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Larry Shone" <greenlarry@ntlworld.com>
> > > > > > To: <ferns@hort.net>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:09 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [ferns] Lowest pinnae length as ID clincher
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > <In the case of many dryopteris species it is the lowemost
> pinnule
> > > > next
> > > > > > > to the rachis or center stem, referred to as basiscopic, is
> often
> > > used
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the key and to help identify certain species.  It may be
smaller
> > > than
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > adjacent basiscopic pinnule or larger>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So my fern has a larger basiscopic pinnule, and is rherefore a
> > > > > Dryopteris!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
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