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Re: news of the day


Jesse: Tell Robert to talk to somebody who has been in the Army and
actually driven one of those darned Hummers...I had mentioned to my
brother-in law ( 20 yr. recently retired Army) that I thought a hummer
would be a great vehicle to have for winter driving and he just started
laughing...said they are the worst for getting bogged down in
ditches...only good for certain driving conditions, none of which you
readily find in the US civilian areas. So I got to thinking, that if a
$55,000 vehicle wasn't any good for driving, then what good was it at
all? You are right...it serves absolutely no purpose other than to
scream "I've got more money than you do!" to anybody who cares!



Melody, IA (Z 5/4)

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."    
--Albert Einstein

 --- On Mon 11/10, Jesse Bell < jesserenebell@hotmail.com > wrote:
From: Jesse Bell [mailto: jesserenebell@hotmail.com]
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:57:35 -0600
Subject: Re: [CHAT] news of the day

Man...I've been reading these e-mails....and ya'll just don't know. Pam
<br>does though. I'm just about ready to sell everything I have and live
in a <br>shoebox somewhere. People (my husband) create their own stress.
House <br>payment too high? Sell it. Car payments getting you down? Buy
something <br>more reasonable. When my husband started oogling Humvee's
I lost it and put <br>my foot down. I said, "they are a gross display of
American greed and <br>one-upsmanship....look at me, look at me...my
truck is bigger than your <br>truck!" He looked shocked that I would
feel this way. Does any person need <br>what was formerly an army
vehicle to drive to work and back. NO. I told <br>him he better not
bring one of them home either. I'm looking at a <br>turbo-diesel
Volkswagen that gets great gas mileage...and he's looking at a
<br>Hummer. PULeeeze.<br><br><br><br>>From:
kmrsy@comcast.net<br>>Reply-To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>>To:
gardenchat@hort.net<br>>Subject: Re: [CHAT] news of the day<br>>Date:
Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:48:20 +0000<br>><br>>People buy what is available.
If auto mfgs were required to build more<br>>fuel efficient/alternative
fuel cars, that's what people would buy. And,<br>>as Marge said, when we
stop buying things, it affects someone's income.<br>>I know this doesn't
apply to all 'things', but it's a start.<br>><br>><br>>Regardless, I
don't know how you'd go about changing peoples proclivity<br>>for
shopping. Tighter restrictions perhaps on credit cards
and<br>>bankruptcy laws.<br>><br>> > But most of these products require
an oil-based economy...and when we <br>>buy<br>> > lots of things...we
continue to fuel it. If a significant part of the<br>> > society stopped
fueling it, those at the top would have to change their<br>> >
strategy.<br>> ><br>> > Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>>
><br>> > > [Original Message]<br>> > > From: <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>> >
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > > Date: 11/10/2003 6:09:32 AM<br>> >
> Subject: Re: [CHAT] news of the day<br>> > ><br>>

> > Marge,<br>> > > I agree with most of what you said regarding greed,
though I see the<br>> > value of a well-controlled credit card.<br>> >
><br>> > > I don't so much have problems with the kind of greed that
wants too <br>>many<br>> > > clothes or tv sets, but with greed by those
who run the show. They<br>> > > inisist on an oil based economy no
matter who or what it hurts because<br>> > > they are heavily invested
in it. Alternatives already exist or can be<br>> > > developed, but they
refuse to go that route and they're big enough to<br>> > > get their
way.<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Kitty<br>> > > > Well, Pam, I think
greed has been with the human race since we<br>> > > > started walking
upright. Just seems there are fewer societal<br>> > > > restraints on it
now than there used to be - or maybe just more<br>> > > > opportunities
for people to indulge. Being greedy used to be <br>>frowned<br>> > > >
upon; now it seems to be the norm.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I also think
that the relative wealth and size of our "middle class"<br>> > > >
encourages greed - as does our consumer oriented society. Used to
<br>>be<br>> > > > - for the vast majority of people - that ' use it
'til it wears out,<br>> > > > then do without' was how things
worked.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > During the depression, my Mom had 1 dress
she wore every day to high<br>> > > > school - it had removable collar
and cuffs - think she told me there<br>> > > > were 2 sets - she washed
them out every night and alternated them.<br>> > > > Before her time,
few but the upper classes and wealthy had more <br>>than<br>> > > > one
garment for every day wear and one for 'best'...the old "Sunday<br>> > >
> Best" (even when I was a child, we still had our "Sunday Best"<br>> >
> > outfit; worn only on Sunday or for very special occasions).
Today,<br>> > > > people have closets bursting with clothes and keep on
buying them<br>> > > > although what they have is perfectly good.<br>> >
> ><br>> > > > Now, we have a throwaway society in this country; all
closely

 t
ied <br>>to<br>> > > > our entire economic operation - and that
operation is now closely<br>> > > > knit to the rest of the world
economy; was just reading an article <br>>in<br>> > > > the paper today
about how almost every Christmas decoration or fake<br>> > > > tree sold
here in the US is made in China; so if we don't buy new<br>> > > >
Christmas goodies, it now adversely affects some poor Chinese
person<br>> > > > earning a big $100/month. Sort of an unending
circle.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > When society operated on a cash basis,
people could only get what<br>> > > > they could actually afford to pay
for up front; most did without.<br>> > > > Once we got a credit based
society, everybody can get about anything<br>> > > > if they have
plastic and people do...so we're always in debt (at<br>> > > > least a
lot are) while accumulating lots of 'stuff' that we really<br>> > > >
don't actually need, but providing thousands of jobs in hundreds of<br>>
> > > related industries. If everybody cut back to getting only what
they<br>> > > > needed; millions would be out of work all over the
world...<br>> > > ><br>> > > > The reverse side of this coin is that all
the greedy consumerism<br>> > > > provides better paying jobs and higher
standards of living to more<br>> > > > people than ever before in the
history of mankind.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > So, how do you strike a happy
medium....keeping up people's standard<br>> > > > of living but
eliminating the greed as SOP factor? Can it be done?<br>> > > > I would
hope that we - as a society - can at least put some curbs on<br>> > > >
the current trends. The scandals about salaries for the big<br>> > > >
corporation CEO's is a small start - if it doesn't just fizzle out.<br>>
> > ><br>> > > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland<br>> > > >
mtalt@hort.net<br>> > > > Editor: Gardening in Shade<br>> > > >
-----------------------------------------------<br>> > > > Current
Article: Variegation on the Green Theme - Part One<br>> > > >

    http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening<br>>


> > > ------------------------------------------------<br>> > > >
Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date<br>> > > >
http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html<br>> > > >
------------------------------------------------<br>> > > > All
Suite101.com garden topics :<br>> > > >

    http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635<br>>

> > ><br>> > > > ----------<br>> > > > > From: Pamela J. Evans
<gardenqueen@gbronline.com><br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > Bonnie & Marge,
I've been turning that soapbox over for years.<br>> > > > Don't<br>> > >
> > understand greed, never have, but it is evil and is undermining<br>>
> > > every<br>> > > > > society it touches. Priorities these days are
severely messed up.<br>> > > > The<br>> > > > > sooner ALL get hip to
that, the better off we'll be. But try to<br>> > > > preach<br>> > > > >
that sermon and people look at you like you have two heads or<br>> > > >
sprouted<br>> > > > > horns or something. My cousin and her husband just
returned from<br>> > > > Russia<br>> > > > > where they were picking up
their newly adopted kids and she told <br>>me<br>> > > > most<br>> > > >
> Americans would be appalled at the conditions these people live
<br>>in.<br>> > > > Even<br>> > > > > as simply as I live, my little
cottage/shack would look like a<br>> > > > palace<br>> > > > > over
there. Wish more people could see that for themselves. Might<br>> > > >
wake<br>> > > > > them up a bit.<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>> > > > >
I can dream, can't I?<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > ---------- Original
Message ----------------------------------<br>> > > > > From: "Bonnie
Holmes" <holmesbm@usit.net><br>> > > > > Reply-To:
gardenchat@hort.net<br>> > > > > Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 07:31:44
-0800<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > >In my mind I can point to the time
"greed" became the mantra for<br>> > > > corporate<br>> > > > >
>America. I was working in D.C. in a large law firm in the late<br>> > >
> 1970's.<br>> > > > > >Ringer's book, "Looking Out For Number One" was
on the best <br>>seller<br>> > > > list and<br>> > > > > >r

eq
uired reading for managers of many large firms. It seems to <br>>me<br>>
> > > that<br>> > > > > >from that point forward the emphasis was on
self...what one could<br>> > > > acquire,<br>> > > > > >how much one
could spend on cars, houses, etc., buying the best<br>> > > > and<br>> >
> > > >bragging on it. Problems of those less fortunate didn't
concern<br>> > > > those on<br>> > > > > >this track unless they were
directly involved. The thought of<br>> > > > giving back<br>> > > > >
>to the community whose structure and principles allowed great<br>> > >
> success was<br>> > > > > >completely lost.<br>> > > > > ><br>> > > > >
>Enough...my soapbox just turned over.<br>> > > > > ><br>> > > > >
>Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN<br>> > > > > ><br>> > > > > ><br>> > > > > ><br>> >
> > >
><br><br>_________________________________________________________________<br>Crave
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