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RE: election

You'd be surprised how many religious leaders and republican were against
the version that showed up on our Ohio ballot, Jim.  It was truly a poorly
worded and difficult to read issue.  It didn't belong on the ballot at all.
I think those who just read the first line or who were a bit confused about
the wording may not have taken the time they should have to re-read and
understand what was there.  That is sad.

Bonnie (SW OH -zone 5)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net] On Behalf
Of james singer
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:55 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: [CHAT] election

And putting the anti-gay marriage initiatives on the ballot sure 
brought out the trogs, especially in Ohio I'm told.

On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 09:52 AM, Kitty wrote:

> And now the rest of the story......
> There were many, many reports of new voters signed up by Republicans 
> who
> discarded the Democratic applications beofre turning them in. Yes, 
> Rove does
> know how to get things done.
> Kitty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bonnie Holmes" <holmesbm@usit.net>
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:58 AM
> Subject: RE: [CHAT] election
>> Seems Carl Rove got out the vote of more previously non-voters than 
>> did
>> Kerry's team.  In most of the close states, the margin between the 
>> Bush
> new
>> voters and the Kerry new voters was exactly what decided things.  Rove
>> studied the non-voters and decided that there was political 
>> possibility.
>> He set up an organization based on the Amway method.  For two years,
>> volunteers were recruited who recruited locals.  They were all 
>> volunteers
>> who had "sales quotas"...bring in more workers, make more calls, etc.
> They
>> built a data base beginning with voter registrations and whatever else
> they
>> could find out about people.  The volunteers emphasized moral values. 
>>  A
>> large portion of the operations were run through the auspices of local
>> churches, which is why they were under the radar of the national
> pollsters.
>> One Ohio county had a network of over 3,000 workers.  If you notice 
>> some
> of
>> Rove's quotes, he told reporters exactly how many phone calls and how 
>> many
>> doors were knocked on in a specific county.
>> Bonnie Zone 7 ETN
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: David Franzman <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
>>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
>>> Date: 11/5/2004 1:38:07 AM
>>> Subject: [CHAT] election
>>> Hi guys
>>> Well this election was a disappointment for me as well.  Much of the
>> fault has
>>> to be layed at the feet of the campaigner.  Kerry was terrible and
>> probably
>>> deserved to lose.  I too am fearful of the future more so for the
> Supreme
>>> Court selections than for what Bush will do in the next four years.  
>>> I
>> hope he
>>> doesn't use his "mandate" to select extremist judges or we will be
> paying
>> for
>>> this election for a very long time.
>>> The reason I'm writing this is not to predict doom and gloom for the
>> future.
>>> I fear political extremes of any type right or left.  I would not 
>>> like
> to
>> live
>>> under an exteme left politician any more than I would a rightest.
>> Leftist (I
>>> don't use the word liberal because using that term as deragatory is
> silly.
>>> Thomas Jefferson was liberal as were many of our founding fathers.  
>>> If
>> they
>>> weren't we'd still be living under a king) tend to tell others how to
> live
>>> their lives as they think they know better what is right and wrong.  
>>> I
>> can't
>>> stand government as big brother any more than I like unfettered
>> conservatism.
>>> However this country's political make up seems to be extremes either
>> right or
>>> left.  There is no compromise anymore which is the essence of 
>>> politics.
>>> We have become so intransigient in this country with nobody caring 
>>> what
> is
>>> said or what facts are presented.  We simply will not back down from
> even
>> an
>>> indefensible position.  Like those who say that there is no such 
>>> thing
> as
>>> evolution and that the earth began 10,000 years ago.  Or that it's 
>>> ok to
>> spray
>>> somebody with paint because they are wearing a fur coat.  Both of 
>>> these
>>> things, from opposite sides of the political spectrum, are ridiculous
> and
>> yet
>>> adherents will justify their beliefs and actions.  We will never move
>> forward
>>> as a nation as long as people live in proverbial trenches.  At some
> point
>> we
>>> have to say "what is best for the country and not just my narrow
>> interests".
>>> We seem to have lost our way and we must fix it.  Yes, my side lost 
>>> this
>>> election but that doesn't mean the end of the world.  What it does 
>>> mean
> is
>>> that we didn't deliver our message very well but it will be better 
>>> for
>>> ourselves and our country if we remain engaged.  We can work with 
>>> others
>> who
>>> don't agree with us by being polite and empathetic to their feelings.
> The
>>> people who voted the opposite way are not blind, deaf and dumb.  They
>> simply
>>> see things we don't or don't put as much faith in.  That doesn't make
> them
>>> wrong.  They are still our neighbor and our fellow countryman and 
>>> their
>>> opinion is just as valuable as ours.  Perhaps if we take the time to
>> listen to
>>> each other instead of just thinking of our next point we might find 
>>> we
> are
>>> closer to each other than we think.
>>> Lastly to make this point stronger.  Ever since the late 70's or so 
>>> we
>> have
>>> been the generation of greed.  It really is time to start thinking of
> the
>>> greater good instead of just ourselves.  This includes business,
>> economics,
>>> social and cultural issues.  We are so self absorbed now that people
>> rarely
>>> donate their time or energy into anything except their own hedonistic
>>> activities.  The more we talk and the more we do things with and for
>> others
>>> the faster we'll heal and the better we'll all be.
>>> Republicans congratulations.  You won.  You now have the honor of
> leading
>> our
>>> country.  Lead well please my kids are counting on you.
>>> DF
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Island Jim
Southwest Florida
27.0 N, 82.4 W
Zone 10a
Minimum 30 F [-1 C]

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