hort.net Seasonal photo, (c) 2006 Christopher P. Lindsey, All Rights Reserved: do not copy
articles | gallery of plants | blog | tech blog | plant profiles | patents | mailing lists | top stories | links | shorturl service | tom clothier's archive0
 Navigation
Articles
Gallery of Plants
Blog
Tech Blog
Plant Profiles
Patents
Mailing Lists
    FAQ
    Netiquette
    Search ALL lists
    Search help
    Subscription info
Top Stories
Links
sHORTurl service
Tom Clothier's Archive
 Top Stories
Disease could hit Britain's trees hard

Ten of the best snowdrop cultivars

Plant protein database helps identify plant gene functions

Dendroclimatologists record history through trees

Potato beetle could be thwarted through gene manipulation

Hawaii expands coffee farm quarantine

Study explains flower petal loss

Unauthorized use of a plant doesn't invalidate it's patent

RSS story archive

Re: Fw: Registration

  • Subject: Re: Fw: Registration
  • From: "Bill Meyer" <njhosta@hotmail.com>
  • Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:37:02 -0400

Jeez Chick,
           You've got to stop smoking that stuff, it's messin' with your
mind.
           Some new hostas will have the kind of mass appeal that the big
nurseries like Walters and Shady Oaks are looking for. These will be the
plants that they feel that even gardeners seeing hostas for the frst time
would snap up in the garden centers. 'Patriot' would be a good example of
this. Others will be interesting only to more serious collectors-----nice
plants in their own way but not the sort of thing that would sell millions.
'Uzo no Mai' will serve as an example of that. 'Satisfaction' is one of the
former, and 'Uncle Albert' one of the latter, to use your own intros.
           A plant which is of interest only to a hundred avid collectors
could be profitable to a small nursery like yours, but would be a waste of
time for Walters Gardens, so they would have no interest in TCing and
selling it. Someone like yourself could have 100 produced by a lab for
little more than the wholesale cost of more common plants. If you then tack
on a royalty for the originator, you will have something new to sell for a
reasonable price. Where you set your price will determine how many you sell,
assuming people want the plant. Of course this oversimplifies. There are
more increments than a hundred or a million.
           The plants that show up at seedling and sport competitions will
most likely run the gamut of how many people would want one, so there will
be plants available to produce at all levels. You probably couldn't swing a
deal with an originator on the next 'Patriot' if Walters or Shady Oaks is
after it, but there will be other plants that they don't zero in on if you
are after some new things to sell exclusively. The recent discussions about
'Enchantment' from Frank's, 'Hotsy Totsy' from Monrovia, and 'Polar Moon'
from Wal-Mart show that the biggest trend in hosta marketing these days is
exclusive introductions. You should take down the barbwire, turn off the bug
detectors,  and try to forget about your abduction by aliens. The real world
isn't full of secret conspiracies. Trust me on that one. Except maybe about
the price of gasoline.

.........Bill Meyer



> Hi again Bill.
>
> I've read through our messages again and I think I can see why we don't
see this
> in the same way.  You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
>
> I tried to go through your message and note all the mis-statements,
errors,
> fantasies, and just plain dunderheaded nonsense, but I was simply
overwhelmed.
> So, the best I can do is simply make a list of all the things I can think
of, in
> the limited amount of time available, that you should know before you go
on.
>
> 1, Your initial statement that there are no new interesting hostas being
> introduced is utter nonsense.  Mary, would you like to whop him upside the
> head?  "Stuck in a
>  rut of endless variations of the same old thing"?  If you want something
> different than variations on the same old hostas, try perennial gardening.
> Hostas are hostas and First Look is not going to come up with some
hitherto
> unknown cache of revolutionary new plants, unlike anything else we've ever
> seen.  It may come up with one, two, maybe even ten, though I doubt it,
but if
> those plants are truly revolutionary, they would be discovered and put up
for
> sale anyway.  If everyone is so sick of all these boring new
introductions, what
> do you think we're doing with them all.  We're selling them, that's why
there
> are more and more of them every year.  Not every one is a jewel, but if
you
> can't find enough interesting plants among all the new ones being
introduced to
> keep you going, then you need to find a new hobby.
>
> 2, You totally dismiss the fact that, for the most part, the tc labs will
> determine what is sold.  Certainly a couple of breeders and nurseries may
make
> arrangements for these exclusive deals that you envision, but what great
benefit
> is that to the world of hostas?  Exclusive deals keep availability
limited, keep
> price up, and as far as I can see, in no way benefit the consumer.  I'm
not
> against them, but if I get one it's for my benefit not yours.  The best
way for
> plants to be distributed, strictly from the customers point of view, is
through
> the tc labs.  Quickly, cheaply and by the thousands.
>
> I do not grow most of my plants from tc.  The vast majority of my plants
are
> propagated by division of my own stock.  But new plants can be produced
faster
> and more cheaply by the labs, and except for those few that can't be done,
the
> vast majority will continue to be produced that way.  If I had one of the
great
> new plants that you are expecting to come out of First Look, I'd be making
my
> exclusive arrangement with a tc lab, not Bridgewood Gardens.
>
> 3.  Very few hosta nurseries can generate the volume necessary to make an
> exclusive arrangement with a breeder worthwhile, except in cases where the
> breeder is not interested in getting the best return for his plant.
Certainly
> there are breeders who don't care about making money with their plant, but
if
> they do, most nurseries can't sell enough to make it worthwhile.  A few
can, and
> they will probably benefit as you envision.  The rest of us will just keep
doing
> things the way we always have.
>
> 4.  And lastly,
>
> Bill Meyer wrote:
>
> >  The issue is exclusive new introductions, not new plants to the
catalog.
> > You know, that "bragging rights" thing? The ones that have the big star
next
> > to them that means "available only from us"? That's what we're talking
> > about.
>
> Why is that the issue?  Who said it was the issue? The vast majority of
hosta
> producers have muddled through for years without depending on exclusive
new
> introductions.  My customers buy far more of those old run of the mill new
> introductions from the labs, that I can offer at what I think is a
reasonable
> price (though I guess that's open for discussion) than they do of my
> introductions.  The only effect I can see that your new marketing method
will
> have is to get prices of newer plants back up to where they were before
the labs
> started producing plants quickly and cheaply.  I'm not a cheerleader for
the
> labs, frankly I would prefer that anything I put out remain under my
control.
> Your vision of Hosta World would be fine with me, assuming I could get my
hands
> on some of these new exclusives.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be good for
my
> business, I'm just saying it isn't likely to happen.
>
> >         That's where having Seedling and Sport Competitions can change
> > things. Nurseries can see a wide range of new seedlings and sports and
> > arrange with the originators to market them. If nurseries want to have
> > exclusive new only-available-from-us plants and not battle with each
other
> > selling the same plant with different names then they have to get a look
at
> > what's out there.
>
> I say again, Bill Meyers, you should be ashamed of yourself.  You have
focused
> on the few instances where actions by some producers have resulted in what
you
> portray as outrageous frauds on the hosta buying public, and made up a
scenario
> of how the business of selling hostas works - unscrupulous  producers
conspiring
> to introduce the same old plant over and over, controlling the market to
insure
> that wonderful new developments never see the light of day -  and you have
made
> up a vision of how you think it will work after First Look changes
everything,
> and neither one have any relationship to the real world.
>
> >        Damn, I was going to keep arguing about this but your post just
came
> > in saying you agree with me. That's not fair!
>
> I agreed with you on one small issue that had nothing to do with the
current
> conflict.  Kind of like the Palestinians and Jews agreeing that they have
> nothing against the Swedes.
>
> > Make some more outrageous
> > statements.
>
> Not a problem.
>
>
> Chick
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@mallorn.com with the
> message text UNSUBSCRIBE HOSTA-OPEN
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@mallorn.com with the
message text UNSUBSCRIBE HOSTA-OPEN





 © 1995-2015 Mallorn Computing, Inc.All Rights Reserved.
Our Privacy Statement
Other Mailing lists | Author Index | Date Index | Subject Index | Thread Index