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Re: Fw: Registration

  • Subject: Re: Fw: Registration
  • From: "Bill Meyer" <njhosta@hotmail.com>
  • Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:37:02 -0400

Jeez Chick,
           You've got to stop smoking that stuff, it's messin' with your
           Some new hostas will have the kind of mass appeal that the big
nurseries like Walters and Shady Oaks are looking for. These will be the
plants that they feel that even gardeners seeing hostas for the frst time
would snap up in the garden centers. 'Patriot' would be a good example of
this. Others will be interesting only to more serious collectors-----nice
plants in their own way but not the sort of thing that would sell millions.
'Uzo no Mai' will serve as an example of that. 'Satisfaction' is one of the
former, and 'Uncle Albert' one of the latter, to use your own intros.
           A plant which is of interest only to a hundred avid collectors
could be profitable to a small nursery like yours, but would be a waste of
time for Walters Gardens, so they would have no interest in TCing and
selling it. Someone like yourself could have 100 produced by a lab for
little more than the wholesale cost of more common plants. If you then tack
on a royalty for the originator, you will have something new to sell for a
reasonable price. Where you set your price will determine how many you sell,
assuming people want the plant. Of course this oversimplifies. There are
more increments than a hundred or a million.
           The plants that show up at seedling and sport competitions will
most likely run the gamut of how many people would want one, so there will
be plants available to produce at all levels. You probably couldn't swing a
deal with an originator on the next 'Patriot' if Walters or Shady Oaks is
after it, but there will be other plants that they don't zero in on if you
are after some new things to sell exclusively. The recent discussions about
'Enchantment' from Frank's, 'Hotsy Totsy' from Monrovia, and 'Polar Moon'
from Wal-Mart show that the biggest trend in hosta marketing these days is
exclusive introductions. You should take down the barbwire, turn off the bug
detectors,  and try to forget about your abduction by aliens. The real world
isn't full of secret conspiracies. Trust me on that one. Except maybe about
the price of gasoline.

.........Bill Meyer

> Hi again Bill.
> I've read through our messages again and I think I can see why we don't
see this
> in the same way.  You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
> I tried to go through your message and note all the mis-statements,
> fantasies, and just plain dunderheaded nonsense, but I was simply
> So, the best I can do is simply make a list of all the things I can think
of, in
> the limited amount of time available, that you should know before you go
> 1, Your initial statement that there are no new interesting hostas being
> introduced is utter nonsense.  Mary, would you like to whop him upside the
> head?  "Stuck in a
>  rut of endless variations of the same old thing"?  If you want something
> different than variations on the same old hostas, try perennial gardening.
> Hostas are hostas and First Look is not going to come up with some
> unknown cache of revolutionary new plants, unlike anything else we've ever
> seen.  It may come up with one, two, maybe even ten, though I doubt it,
but if
> those plants are truly revolutionary, they would be discovered and put up
> sale anyway.  If everyone is so sick of all these boring new
introductions, what
> do you think we're doing with them all.  We're selling them, that's why
> are more and more of them every year.  Not every one is a jewel, but if
> can't find enough interesting plants among all the new ones being
introduced to
> keep you going, then you need to find a new hobby.
> 2, You totally dismiss the fact that, for the most part, the tc labs will
> determine what is sold.  Certainly a couple of breeders and nurseries may
> arrangements for these exclusive deals that you envision, but what great
> is that to the world of hostas?  Exclusive deals keep availability
limited, keep
> price up, and as far as I can see, in no way benefit the consumer.  I'm
> against them, but if I get one it's for my benefit not yours.  The best
way for
> plants to be distributed, strictly from the customers point of view, is
> the tc labs.  Quickly, cheaply and by the thousands.
> I do not grow most of my plants from tc.  The vast majority of my plants
> propagated by division of my own stock.  But new plants can be produced
> and more cheaply by the labs, and except for those few that can't be done,
> vast majority will continue to be produced that way.  If I had one of the
> new plants that you are expecting to come out of First Look, I'd be making
> exclusive arrangement with a tc lab, not Bridgewood Gardens.
> 3.  Very few hosta nurseries can generate the volume necessary to make an
> exclusive arrangement with a breeder worthwhile, except in cases where the
> breeder is not interested in getting the best return for his plant.
> there are breeders who don't care about making money with their plant, but
> they do, most nurseries can't sell enough to make it worthwhile.  A few
can, and
> they will probably benefit as you envision.  The rest of us will just keep
> things the way we always have.
> 4.  And lastly,
> Bill Meyer wrote:
> >  The issue is exclusive new introductions, not new plants to the
> > You know, that "bragging rights" thing? The ones that have the big star
> > to them that means "available only from us"? That's what we're talking
> > about.
> Why is that the issue?  Who said it was the issue? The vast majority of
> producers have muddled through for years without depending on exclusive
> introductions.  My customers buy far more of those old run of the mill new
> introductions from the labs, that I can offer at what I think is a
> price (though I guess that's open for discussion) than they do of my
> introductions.  The only effect I can see that your new marketing method
> have is to get prices of newer plants back up to where they were before
the labs
> started producing plants quickly and cheaply.  I'm not a cheerleader for
> labs, frankly I would prefer that anything I put out remain under my
> Your vision of Hosta World would be fine with me, assuming I could get my
> on some of these new exclusives.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be good for
> business, I'm just saying it isn't likely to happen.
> >         That's where having Seedling and Sport Competitions can change
> > things. Nurseries can see a wide range of new seedlings and sports and
> > arrange with the originators to market them. If nurseries want to have
> > exclusive new only-available-from-us plants and not battle with each
> > selling the same plant with different names then they have to get a look
> > what's out there.
> I say again, Bill Meyers, you should be ashamed of yourself.  You have
> on the few instances where actions by some producers have resulted in what
> portray as outrageous frauds on the hosta buying public, and made up a
> of how the business of selling hostas works - unscrupulous  producers
> to introduce the same old plant over and over, controlling the market to
> that wonderful new developments never see the light of day -  and you have
> up a vision of how you think it will work after First Look changes
> and neither one have any relationship to the real world.
> >        Damn, I was going to keep arguing about this but your post just
> > in saying you agree with me. That's not fair!
> I agreed with you on one small issue that had nothing to do with the
> conflict.  Kind of like the Palestinians and Jews agreeing that they have
> nothing against the Swedes.
> > Make some more outrageous
> > statements.
> Not a problem.
> Chick
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