Re: Fw: Registration
- Subject: Re: Fw: Registration
- From: C*
- Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:50:12 -0400
My head hurts. I quit.
Chick
Bill Meyer wrote:
> Jeez Chick,
> You've got to stop smoking that stuff, it's messin' with your
> mind.
> Some new hostas will have the kind of mass appeal that the big
> nurseries like Walters and Shady Oaks are looking for. These will be the
> plants that they feel that even gardeners seeing hostas for the frst time
> would snap up in the garden centers. 'Patriot' would be a good example of
> this. Others will be interesting only to more serious collectors-----nice
> plants in their own way but not the sort of thing that would sell millions.
> 'Uzo no Mai' will serve as an example of that. 'Satisfaction' is one of the
> former, and 'Uncle Albert' one of the latter, to use your own intros.
> A plant which is of interest only to a hundred avid collectors
> could be profitable to a small nursery like yours, but would be a waste of
> time for Walters Gardens, so they would have no interest in TCing and
> selling it. Someone like yourself could have 100 produced by a lab for
> little more than the wholesale cost of more common plants. If you then tack
> on a royalty for the originator, you will have something new to sell for a
> reasonable price. Where you set your price will determine how many you sell,
> assuming people want the plant. Of course this oversimplifies. There are
> more increments than a hundred or a million.
> The plants that show up at seedling and sport competitions will
> most likely run the gamut of how many people would want one, so there will
> be plants available to produce at all levels. You probably couldn't swing a
> deal with an originator on the next 'Patriot' if Walters or Shady Oaks is
> after it, but there will be other plants that they don't zero in on if you
> are after some new things to sell exclusively. The recent discussions about
> 'Enchantment' from Frank's, 'Hotsy Totsy' from Monrovia, and 'Polar Moon'
> from Wal-Mart show that the biggest trend in hosta marketing these days is
> exclusive introductions. You should take down the barbwire, turn off the bug
> detectors, and try to forget about your abduction by aliens. The real world
> isn't full of secret conspiracies. Trust me on that one. Except maybe about
> the price of gasoline.
>
> .........Bill Meyer
>
> > Hi again Bill.
> >
> > I've read through our messages again and I think I can see why we don't
> see this
> > in the same way. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
> >
> > I tried to go through your message and note all the mis-statements,
> errors,
> > fantasies, and just plain dunderheaded nonsense, but I was simply
> overwhelmed.
> > So, the best I can do is simply make a list of all the things I can think
> of, in
> > the limited amount of time available, that you should know before you go
> on.
> >
> > 1, Your initial statement that there are no new interesting hostas being
> > introduced is utter nonsense. Mary, would you like to whop him upside the
> > head? "Stuck in a
> > rut of endless variations of the same old thing"? If you want something
> > different than variations on the same old hostas, try perennial gardening.
> > Hostas are hostas and First Look is not going to come up with some
> hitherto
> > unknown cache of revolutionary new plants, unlike anything else we've ever
> > seen. It may come up with one, two, maybe even ten, though I doubt it,
> but if
> > those plants are truly revolutionary, they would be discovered and put up
> for
> > sale anyway. If everyone is so sick of all these boring new
> introductions, what
> > do you think we're doing with them all. We're selling them, that's why
> there
> > are more and more of them every year. Not every one is a jewel, but if
> you
> > can't find enough interesting plants among all the new ones being
> introduced to
> > keep you going, then you need to find a new hobby.
> >
> > 2, You totally dismiss the fact that, for the most part, the tc labs will
> > determine what is sold. Certainly a couple of breeders and nurseries may
> make
> > arrangements for these exclusive deals that you envision, but what great
> benefit
> > is that to the world of hostas? Exclusive deals keep availability
> limited, keep
> > price up, and as far as I can see, in no way benefit the consumer. I'm
> not
> > against them, but if I get one it's for my benefit not yours. The best
> way for
> > plants to be distributed, strictly from the customers point of view, is
> through
> > the tc labs. Quickly, cheaply and by the thousands.
> >
> > I do not grow most of my plants from tc. The vast majority of my plants
> are
> > propagated by division of my own stock. But new plants can be produced
> faster
> > and more cheaply by the labs, and except for those few that can't be done,
> the
> > vast majority will continue to be produced that way. If I had one of the
> great
> > new plants that you are expecting to come out of First Look, I'd be making
> my
> > exclusive arrangement with a tc lab, not Bridgewood Gardens.
> >
> > 3. Very few hosta nurseries can generate the volume necessary to make an
> > exclusive arrangement with a breeder worthwhile, except in cases where the
> > breeder is not interested in getting the best return for his plant.
> Certainly
> > there are breeders who don't care about making money with their plant, but
> if
> > they do, most nurseries can't sell enough to make it worthwhile. A few
> can, and
> > they will probably benefit as you envision. The rest of us will just keep
> doing
> > things the way we always have.
> >
> > 4. And lastly,
> >
> > Bill Meyer wrote:
> >
> > > The issue is exclusive new introductions, not new plants to the
> catalog.
> > > You know, that "bragging rights" thing? The ones that have the big star
> next
> > > to them that means "available only from us"? That's what we're talking
> > > about.
> >
> > Why is that the issue? Who said it was the issue? The vast majority of
> hosta
> > producers have muddled through for years without depending on exclusive
> new
> > introductions. My customers buy far more of those old run of the mill new
> > introductions from the labs, that I can offer at what I think is a
> reasonable
> > price (though I guess that's open for discussion) than they do of my
> > introductions. The only effect I can see that your new marketing method
> will
> > have is to get prices of newer plants back up to where they were before
> the labs
> > started producing plants quickly and cheaply. I'm not a cheerleader for
> the
> > labs, frankly I would prefer that anything I put out remain under my
> control.
> > Your vision of Hosta World would be fine with me, assuming I could get my
> hands
> > on some of these new exclusives. I'm not saying it wouldn't be good for
> my
> > business, I'm just saying it isn't likely to happen.
> >
> > > That's where having Seedling and Sport Competitions can change
> > > things. Nurseries can see a wide range of new seedlings and sports and
> > > arrange with the originators to market them. If nurseries want to have
> > > exclusive new only-available-from-us plants and not battle with each
> other
> > > selling the same plant with different names then they have to get a look
> at
> > > what's out there.
> >
> > I say again, Bill Meyers, you should be ashamed of yourself. You have
> focused
> > on the few instances where actions by some producers have resulted in what
> you
> > portray as outrageous frauds on the hosta buying public, and made up a
> scenario
> > of how the business of selling hostas works - unscrupulous producers
> conspiring
> > to introduce the same old plant over and over, controlling the market to
> insure
> > that wonderful new developments never see the light of day - and you have
> made
> > up a vision of how you think it will work after First Look changes
> everything,
> > and neither one have any relationship to the real world.
> >
> > > Damn, I was going to keep arguing about this but your post just
> came
> > > in saying you agree with me. That's not fair!
> >
> > I agreed with you on one small issue that had nothing to do with the
> current
> > conflict. Kind of like the Palestinians and Jews agreeing that they have
> > nothing against the Swedes.
> >
> > > Make some more outrageous
> > > statements.
> >
> > Not a problem.
> >
> >
> > Chick
> >
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