Re: Fw: Registration
- Subject: Re: Fw: Registration
- From: B* M*
- Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:01:43 -0400
Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. I quit too. What were we arguing
about anyway?
> My head hurts. I quit.
>
> Chick
>
> Bill Meyer wrote:
>
> > Jeez Chick,
> > You've got to stop smoking that stuff, it's messin' with your
> > mind.
> > Some new hostas will have the kind of mass appeal that the
big
> > nurseries like Walters and Shady Oaks are looking for. These will be the
> > plants that they feel that even gardeners seeing hostas for the frst
time
> > would snap up in the garden centers. 'Patriot' would be a good example
of
> > this. Others will be interesting only to more serious
collectors-----nice
> > plants in their own way but not the sort of thing that would sell
millions.
> > 'Uzo no Mai' will serve as an example of that. 'Satisfaction' is one of
the
> > former, and 'Uncle Albert' one of the latter, to use your own intros.
> > A plant which is of interest only to a hundred avid
collectors
> > could be profitable to a small nursery like yours, but would be a waste
of
> > time for Walters Gardens, so they would have no interest in TCing and
> > selling it. Someone like yourself could have 100 produced by a lab for
> > little more than the wholesale cost of more common plants. If you then
tack
> > on a royalty for the originator, you will have something new to sell for
a
> > reasonable price. Where you set your price will determine how many you
sell,
> > assuming people want the plant. Of course this oversimplifies. There are
> > more increments than a hundred or a million.
> > The plants that show up at seedling and sport competitions
will
> > most likely run the gamut of how many people would want one, so there
will
> > be plants available to produce at all levels. You probably couldn't
swing a
> > deal with an originator on the next 'Patriot' if Walters or Shady Oaks
is
> > after it, but there will be other plants that they don't zero in on if
you
> > are after some new things to sell exclusively. The recent discussions
about
> > 'Enchantment' from Frank's, 'Hotsy Totsy' from Monrovia, and 'Polar
Moon'
> > from Wal-Mart show that the biggest trend in hosta marketing these days
is
> > exclusive introductions. You should take down the barbwire, turn off the
bug
> > detectors, and try to forget about your abduction by aliens. The real
world
> > isn't full of secret conspiracies. Trust me on that one. Except maybe
about
> > the price of gasoline.
> >
> > .........Bill Meyer
> >
> > > Hi again Bill.
> > >
> > > I've read through our messages again and I think I can see why we
don't
> > see this
> > > in the same way. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking
about.
> > >
> > > I tried to go through your message and note all the mis-statements,
> > errors,
> > > fantasies, and just plain dunderheaded nonsense, but I was simply
> > overwhelmed.
> > > So, the best I can do is simply make a list of all the things I can
think
> > of, in
> > > the limited amount of time available, that you should know before you
go
> > on.
> > >
> > > 1, Your initial statement that there are no new interesting hostas
being
> > > introduced is utter nonsense. Mary, would you like to whop him upside
the
> > > head? "Stuck in a
> > > rut of endless variations of the same old thing"? If you want
something
> > > different than variations on the same old hostas, try perennial
gardening.
> > > Hostas are hostas and First Look is not going to come up with some
> > hitherto
> > > unknown cache of revolutionary new plants, unlike anything else we've
ever
> > > seen. It may come up with one, two, maybe even ten, though I doubt
it,
> > but if
> > > those plants are truly revolutionary, they would be discovered and put
up
> > for
> > > sale anyway. If everyone is so sick of all these boring new
> > introductions, what
> > > do you think we're doing with them all. We're selling them, that's
why
> > there
> > > are more and more of them every year. Not every one is a jewel, but
if
> > you
> > > can't find enough interesting plants among all the new ones being
> > introduced to
> > > keep you going, then you need to find a new hobby.
> > >
> > > 2, You totally dismiss the fact that, for the most part, the tc labs
will
> > > determine what is sold. Certainly a couple of breeders and nurseries
may
> > make
> > > arrangements for these exclusive deals that you envision, but what
great
> > benefit
> > > is that to the world of hostas? Exclusive deals keep availability
> > limited, keep
> > > price up, and as far as I can see, in no way benefit the consumer.
I'm
> > not
> > > against them, but if I get one it's for my benefit not yours. The
best
> > way for
> > > plants to be distributed, strictly from the customers point of view,
is
> > through
> > > the tc labs. Quickly, cheaply and by the thousands.
> > >
> > > I do not grow most of my plants from tc. The vast majority of my
plants
> > are
> > > propagated by division of my own stock. But new plants can be
produced
> > faster
> > > and more cheaply by the labs, and except for those few that can't be
done,
> > the
> > > vast majority will continue to be produced that way. If I had one of
the
> > great
> > > new plants that you are expecting to come out of First Look, I'd be
making
> > my
> > > exclusive arrangement with a tc lab, not Bridgewood Gardens.
> > >
> > > 3. Very few hosta nurseries can generate the volume necessary to make
an
> > > exclusive arrangement with a breeder worthwhile, except in cases where
the
> > > breeder is not interested in getting the best return for his plant.
> > Certainly
> > > there are breeders who don't care about making money with their plant,
but
> > if
> > > they do, most nurseries can't sell enough to make it worthwhile. A
few
> > can, and
> > > they will probably benefit as you envision. The rest of us will just
keep
> > doing
> > > things the way we always have.
> > >
> > > 4. And lastly,
> > >
> > > Bill Meyer wrote:
> > >
> > > > The issue is exclusive new introductions, not new plants to the
> > catalog.
> > > > You know, that "bragging rights" thing? The ones that have the big
star
> > next
> > > > to them that means "available only from us"? That's what we're
talking
> > > > about.
> > >
> > > Why is that the issue? Who said it was the issue? The vast majority
of
> > hosta
> > > producers have muddled through for years without depending on
exclusive
> > new
> > > introductions. My customers buy far more of those old run of the mill
new
> > > introductions from the labs, that I can offer at what I think is a
> > reasonable
> > > price (though I guess that's open for discussion) than they do of my
> > > introductions. The only effect I can see that your new marketing
method
> > will
> > > have is to get prices of newer plants back up to where they were
before
> > the labs
> > > started producing plants quickly and cheaply. I'm not a cheerleader
for
> > the
> > > labs, frankly I would prefer that anything I put out remain under my
> > control.
> > > Your vision of Hosta World would be fine with me, assuming I could get
my
> > hands
> > > on some of these new exclusives. I'm not saying it wouldn't be good
for
> > my
> > > business, I'm just saying it isn't likely to happen.
> > >
> > > > That's where having Seedling and Sport Competitions can
change
> > > > things. Nurseries can see a wide range of new seedlings and sports
and
> > > > arrange with the originators to market them. If nurseries want to
have
> > > > exclusive new only-available-from-us plants and not battle with each
> > other
> > > > selling the same plant with different names then they have to get a
look
> > at
> > > > what's out there.
> > >
> > > I say again, Bill Meyers, you should be ashamed of yourself. You have
> > focused
> > > on the few instances where actions by some producers have resulted in
what
> > you
> > > portray as outrageous frauds on the hosta buying public, and made up a
> > scenario
> > > of how the business of selling hostas works - unscrupulous producers
> > conspiring
> > > to introduce the same old plant over and over, controlling the market
to
> > insure
> > > that wonderful new developments never see the light of day - and you
have
> > made
> > > up a vision of how you think it will work after First Look changes
> > everything,
> > > and neither one have any relationship to the real world.
> > >
> > > > Damn, I was going to keep arguing about this but your post
just
> > came
> > > > in saying you agree with me. That's not fair!
> > >
> > > I agreed with you on one small issue that had nothing to do with the
> > current
> > > conflict. Kind of like the Palestinians and Jews agreeing that they
have
> > > nothing against the Swedes.
> > >
> > > > Make some more outrageous
> > > > statements.
> > >
> > > Not a problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > Chick
> > >
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