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Re: More on Doreen's Open Pollinated and Heirloom thread


>>OP seeds are generally stablized up to the F6 generation--seeds have been
>saved six times in a row and the >off-spring each time is true.
>
>The "up to the" phrase confuses me.  Let's say I've got a tomato I don't
>know the status of but like for flavor, habit, disease resistance, etc.  I
>grow it out, plant seeds from the F1 fruit to make the F2 generation plant,
>and repeat that process until reaching F6.
>
>Is it correct that if the resulting plant has looked like (and fruit tasted
>like) the F1 all through that chain, then what I have in hand is ipso facto
>an open-pollinated tomato?  But if the repetition chain broke down at, say,
>the F5 generation (producing fruits that were different or some such
>variation), I *don't* have an OP tomato?
---------------------------------------------------------
It is generally accepted that if a variety still breeds true at the F6
generation, you have stabilized it--meaning the seed can be counted upon to
reproduce reliably.  Your hypothetical errant F5 that is a rogue either was
crossed with something else in the previous planting or a rare trait is
finally showing up or it's a sport.  A sport is a mutant in the plant world.
Some interesting stuff comes up when growing out a variety.


>
>Also, you later said,
>>There are three types of heirlooms.
>>Those passed down from generation to generation within ethnic, regional or
>>religious enclaves.
>>Those that were of commercial importance before the advent of hybrids.
>>Those that are a cross between two heirloom and have been stablized to the
>>F6 or greater generation.  Banana Legs and Green Zebra tomatoes are examples
>>of this--both were created by Tom Wagner of Tater'Mater in the early 1980's.
>
>Re the third type of heirlooms, I can see how turning 2 heirlooms into a
>hybrid (what Wagner did) and then propagating it to the F6 and finding no
>alterations would yield a new OP, but how does that qualify the product to
>call itself an heirloom?
>
>I guess I always assumed that the term "heirloom" carried some connotation
>of antiquity beyond simple OP status.
-------------------------------------------------
Many people in the heirloom world (and yes it has become a cult or world!!)
would agree with you.  It's a bone of contention.  But, those are the
generally agreed upon classifications and they are debated regularly. The
seed producers are the ones that push this third category.  People like
Renee Shepherd and even Kent Whealy seems to like the third category.
Purists such as Dr. Male and Dr. Jeff McCormack regard only the first two
categories as true heirlooms.  Make your own decision!!
Hope this helps.
Doreen

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