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Re: ants- Reply to some old posts Long

<< In a message dated 97-06-30 07:03:11 EDT, you write:

 << I planted my garden with the intention of feeding my family.
  I don't want bugs eating my family's food. Some folk put in gardens as a
  hobby, they can deal with a decreased harvest in return for the feeling
  of being one with nature. >>


   After reading posts such as these, I decided to wait for my harvest to
come in before replying. I have nine 4x4 beds (which seems to be a fairly
large garden judging from some of the posts I've seen) and I went organic
last summer, with the results being the best I had ever had. I have gardened
since I was 18 and had a large non-organic garden in Rhode Island for years,
basically following the "Crocketts Victory Garden" approach, using chemical
insecticides and fertilizers in accordance with his system of gardening.
Three years ago, my wife and I bought our own house with a large side yard
and I was able to try SQFT gardening for the first time. The first year I
gardened according to Mel's book while still referring to Crocketts book from
time to time. Last summer, my second as a SQFTer I decided to try organic
gardening after my mother gave me a subsciption to Organic Gardening magazine
and I will never go back.
    Bill's excuse for using chemicals in his garden (feeding his family) is
one that cannot be taken lightly, as results in his case (and mine for that
matter, since I feed my wife and myself with my garden) are of extreme
importance and a key reason for his gardening. It seemed to me that the best
way to refute the need for chemicals in a garden would be to wait until the
end of the year , list my harvest and let Bill and others compare it to
theirs. I know that there are many factors that will affect any harvest, but
judging from the recent posts about the disappointing harvests from several
people (including Bill) and taking into consideration the fact that we in
Mass. had an official drought this summer I thought it might be interesting
for non-organic SQFTers to see how my organic harvest held up to the drought.
    As I stated before, I have 9 beds which are planted with both vegetables
and flowers, and those beds are surrounded by beds that have nothing but
flowers (annuals and perenials) in them.
    This year I planted four types of tomatoes: 3 Big Beef, 3 Early pick, 3
Bush Big Boy and 2 Viva Italian Hybred. From these 11 plants I have so far
been able to can 120 lbs of ripe tomatoes on top of giving many away to
neighbors and friends. Since I didn't weigh the tomatoes I gave away, I'm not
sure what my exact total is, but I still have some ripening on the vines and
I know I will have plenty of green toms to make my green tomato relish with
right before our first frost. (Next week?)
    I planted four types of winter squash: 2 Butterboy Hybred which produced
13 squash: 2 Buttercup acorn which produced 15 squash: 2 Blue Hubbard which
produced 6 squash, the smallest being 12 lbs: and 1 Prizewinner Pumpkin which
produced 1 huge pumpkin for my wife to carve up.(I cut all but the one from
the vine to get as big a pumpkin as I could)
    I planted two types of corn: Early Choice which produced 18 ears and
Illini Xtra Sweet which produced 20 ears. I tried Mel's suggestion of 4
plants per sqft last year and was very disappointed with the results, so I
went back to the traditional 1 plant per sqft this year with ok results.
    I planted 6 Millionaire Hybred Asian Eggplants and have had an excellant
harvest of them since August, eating many ourselves and giving many away to
my wife's Japanese co-workers and to our neighbors. (my best guess is 45-50
eggplants with more still growing, but this is only a guess)
    My spring plantings of Green Ice, Royal Oak Leaf, Prizeleaf and Arugula
produced delicious cuttings throughmid July before they started to turn
bitter, and the late August planting are just starting to produce harvests.
    I had a very good harvest with my spring radishes and am now waiting for
the late summer plantings to mature. They also seem to be coming along great.
    My carrots have been a disaster every year that I've been at this
address, and this year was no exception. Nuff said about them.
    My Green Bush Snap beans and Pencil Pod Wax-Bush beans (yellow) have put
8 lbs of frozen beans in our freezer with one last harvest to be picked
tomorrow.
    I also have 18 broccoli plants growing where my corn was, but I can't say
what kind of harvest they will produce just yet.
    I planted some herbs and harvested some but let most go to flower to
attract beneficials to the garden.
    My bell peppers were a moderate success, nothing to write home about.
    My sunflowers were huge and produced some great meals for the local
squirrels and a lot of entertainment for our household watching the squirrels
hang upside down to get at the seeds.
    Many things produced late, but I believe that was due to the cold wet
spring followed by drought that was the weather here this year.
    Was my garden attacked by pests? Yes. I must have cut about 15-20 borers
out of my squash. I was trying the wipe off the vine method of prevention
which didn't work too well. Next year I'm going to try using BT. (an organic
pesticide) But even with all these borers, the squash plants produced more
than the seed catalog said they would.
    I did not have significant numbers of pests of any other type on my
vegetables, although my Gloryflowers were attacked by some kind of weird
yellow bugs, which were in turn attacked by a bunch of lady bugs there
appeared after about a week of these weird bugs eating my flowers. A few
earwigs on my corn, far fewer than last year, and hardly any aphids anywhere.
    I don't know whether or not I would have gotten a bigger harvest using
chemicals, but I doubt it, since this year was much better than any other
I've had and there was a drought here this year. I never had to worry about
the timing of harvesting coinciding with the half life of some pesticide,
since I didn't use any. I agree with Bill that I don't want pests eating the
fruits of my labor, but I disagree with his method of getting rid of the
pests. There was an interesting article in Organic Gardening this past summer
about a study done that showed that vegetables grown organically are actually
less attractive to pests than vegetables grown using chemicals. I also have
come to believe that feeding the soil that feeds the plant will help produce
a better harvest than feeding the plant with chemicals.


  <<But I'm sure you knew this. You would never use sarcasm, hyperbole or a
 hostile tone to proselytize an extreme, cultist version of Organic
 Gardening. Since this would seem to support the Idea that only crazed,
 "Can't seem to find their way out of the Sixties",
 Earth-Loving/Human-Hating Kazinski-ites are doing Organic Gardening.
 That's not a way to win folk over. Suggesting alternatives is one thing,
 Haranguing folk is another.
         Ants belong in an eco-system, but not in my garden. Unless you have
 never slapped a mosquito I am sure you won't object to me killing a few
 ant nests in -MY- yard! You can do what ever you want to in -YOUR- yard
 as long as you don't try to bully folk with snide, hostile,
 pseudo-scientific demagoguery.
         I think they have a list where that kind of half-baked mythology is
 accepted as fact but this is the Square Foot Gardening List.>>

    As for Bills tirade about the 60s and organic gardeners, perhaps the less
said the better. I would hope that he would realize though, that A: we are
not all crazed,
 "Can't seem to find their way out of the Sixties",
 Earth-Loving/Human-Hating Kazinski-ites . Most of us are actually quite down
to earth people with the same everyday joys, disappointments and  problems
that everybody else has, and that B:the way he kills a pest in his yard will
often have an effect on my yard, and he has no right to effect my yard in any
way at all.
    Anyway, hope everybody has a great fall and winter.
    Later.
    Jim Kirker

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