Re: Spec-X?

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Sean,

I'm right with you. Knowledge should be openly shared, not locked away, even in other peoples heads, as if one must earn or pay for it. This conservative and greedy attitude has always left a sour taste in mys heart, leaving me to believe interest and questioning is actually not wanted or wished for. Especially the later. How dare one even question the status quo, while it is still upon its exaulted podium!

AMW, you have a strong tendency to simply take jabs at those that don't fill your definition of a 'good' irisarian. Wake up! The world is moving very quickly and the idea that one should research every little item themselves and pay for it along the way is not only long antiquated, but simply an inefficient method. It is exactly this ivory tower mentality that drives many people away from forums, as well as their associated societies. I really do not wish to be a member of such a group.

As to the changes that are sloooowly happening in iris classes, these molasses slow considerations are simply further hindered in that new voices are not allowed to take part. Credence is not really given to the other opinion. Change is fine as long as it all stays the same.

I didn't ask any of my questions in anger or malice, as didn't Sean, from what I can read. I simply wish to allucidate on an already tired and accepted concept, that I find untenable! Robert, bless him, takes the time to explain how he understands the current situation, which I appreciate, even when I don't agree. Treating either of us a rank beginners is simply ridiculous (not to mention counterproductive and insulting!)

I really find such discussions can be profitable all around. Poor attitude put me right off! Compost it!

Jamie V.
Cologne
Germany

Am 01.01.2011 20:25, schrieb Sean A. Zera:

I'm sure that many questions have been answered well by many people. A  
collective thanks to all of you.

Do you really feel that I need to have purchased and read every single  
AIS bulletin before I can express an opinion about anything here? As  
far as I can tell, there is no index to back issues from which to pick  
specific topics.

SZ




Quoting C*@aol.com:

I think people here have risen to the challenge of answering your  
many questions as responsibly and generously as anyone might  
reasonably expect. How many have you thanked?

And yes, I reiterate that some of the responsibility for your own  
education lies with you.

AMW





-----Original Message-----
From: Sean A. Zera z*@umich.edu
To: i*@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jan 1, 2011 1:46 pm
Subject: Re: [iris-species] Spec-X?




God forbid that anyone would try to learn something from other people
on this forum, instead of earning that knowledge themselves.

Quoting C*@aol.com:

This is what I think:

There is nothing the least bit unusual that a classification system
of anything would need to be, or benefit from,being refined over time.
Change is simply a positive response to ongoing thought, and may be
necessitated by the need to refine the system, or because that which
is being classified is changing, or because our understanding of
things changes. This is certainly not only the case of the AIS
system, it is also the case in the botanical world, rather
notoriously so.

There is no reason whatsoever that if an iris meets the criteria for
IB and also a SPEC-X then it cannot be classified as both, or either.

There is no reason to think that if one seedling is classed one way
its sibling---which it may or may not resemble closely--must also be
classified the same way. They are discrete and unique botanical
entities.

There is no good reason to reclassify things every time something
changes. People who have an interest in these issues keep up with
the changes. People who don't keep up with them but who care about
the issues need to educate themselves. Nothing in life is static,
especially information.

The purpose of the AIS classification system is to effect cogent
communication. It is an attempt by the collective to derive and
achieve concord towards an accurate descriptive vocabulary to be
used in discussions of a broad, numerous, various and ever expanding
body of unique cultivars reflecting highly personal tastes and
responses to a collective aesthetic vision which rewards
distinctiveness. It also defines what at any given time is
understood to be the ideal of a certain class, so that that ideal
may be understood and discussed, as a standard for evaluation and
comparison, and as a goal.

This is not a compost heap, it is a quasi-casuistic dungpile. My
suggestion to anyone who seeks enlightenment here is: Read the
resources that AIS has published for you; buy or borrow the Check
Lists so you can see what they actually contain before carrying on
in an angry and paranoid manner; prioritize owning the basic
literature beyond the AIS publications and read that too; abandon
the idea that there is some boogeyman in the rainbow drama, and base
your education and opinions on verifiable facts.

AMW
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-- 
Jamie V.

_______________________

KÃln (Cologne)
Germany
Zone 8