chinensis germination

Hi folks,
	By this time I would expect most of the seeds which are going to germinate 
for me this year to have done so.  For several years I've been trying 
odaesanensis, koreana, etc., from the SIGNA exchange, and have met with 
exactly zero success.  It's obvious that they need something else than the 
default technique of stratifying them in a pot outside over winter.  I have 
tried tying the seeds in pantyhose and putting them in the toilet tank for 
a month--no help.  I tried the seed cutting method outlined by Tamberg in 
the bulletin a few years back; they rotted.  My best guess is that they may 
be 40F germinators, although considering their origins, that seems 
surprising.  Does anyone have success with this group?  What are you doing?
	Ken




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