Hi James,
Yeah, the only problem with the Pseudacorus was that it had been planted
at the upstream end of an open waterway during a stream restoration.
Our municipal storm and sewer systems are separate so our stormwater
pipes empty directly into streams. The engineering to manage the force
of the stormwater and keep a natural environment (vs. turning it into a
culvert) is actually pretty impressive. The stream bed and banks were
graded and completely rebuilt and the wetland was put in so storm water
would spread over a large area and then flow into the stream at lower
velocity. Of course with the water goes seed.
But otherwise Pseudacorus was actually very pretty and a strong hardy
plant. I can see why it would be desirable in a more controlled
situation. My neighbor has some in her garden pond she keeps contained
in a bucket and it works quite well for her.
My interest in identifying the blue iris now is one of curiosity. I am
an academic (for good or for ill!) so I want all the pieces of the
puzzle to fit - even if there's no good purpose to it. I just can't
help myself.
:)
Interesting about Sestosa and Virginica, now do you know if "virginal
virginica" or that bad boy Sestosa got together with giganticarulea?
-Helen
--- In iris-species@yahoogroups.com, "James Harrison PhD" <JBHPHD@...>
wrote:
>
> I say, relax already, as long as you have a blue/ purple iris. I agree
not to feature pseudacorus.
>
> Theory has it that during one of the ice ages, that Alaskan Setosa
move further and further south, and married our virginica, and when the
ice retreated there was a child called versicolor, in NE with exactly
the additive number of chromosomes of our virginal virginica + Sestosa..
>
> I live in Asheville, NC 2000' above the coastal wetlands, where it is
much cooler and I cannot give them wet feet at my house.. Here, neither
of these specis is so robust. In fact, I am not able to tell them apart
with certainty, though I know that I have both. I think they are
interfertile, and there are probably many hybrids between them, or
should I say among them for I also have some Setosa..
>
> Ensata, the Japanese Iris also has a central vein, but it is not as
prominent as pseudacorus, but Ensata blooms much later.
>
> My suggestion is, relax and enjoy. Get rid of the yellow, if it
appears next year, but there is some use for pseudacorus, if you want
it. I do in some locations.
>
> James Harrison
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hldlily
> To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:36 PM
> Subject: [iris-species] Virginica "Contraband Girl" was Re:
Distinguishing Pseudacorus from Versicolor?
>
>
> Hi Vic,
>
> If the contractors made some "on the fly" subsitution because the
> nursery was out of versicolor aanything is possible. The wetlands
> planting was one of the last things they were doing as the contract
> ended.
>
> Are there differences between the blue iris' in the arrangement of
> the leaves as they come out of the rhizome?
>
> I ask because I noticed that the Iris pseudacorus had their leaves
> emerging "fan-like" from the water so if you were to take a cross
> section it would be long and narrow (similar to the garden bearded
> iris I have).
>
> The blue iris has leaves that are nested in a somewhat cupped way
> towards the bottom so the cross section would be more circular -
> approaching "scallion-like" more than fan-like.
>
> Unfortunately I didn't take a photo of the blue iris blooms. It
> seems, from the web pages I looked at, that the Iris giganticaerulea
> blooms look different enough from versicolor to distinguish them.
> (Is that correct?)
>
> I'm encouraged by your reports of tall versicolor (though still
> confused by the lack of a mid vein) so I hope that's what it is. The
> Giganticaerulea looks beautiful and would be great in a private
> garden, but it's not native anywhere on the East Coast so it's not
> the best choice for an open Maryland waterway.
>
> -Helen
>
>
> --- In iris-species@yahoogroups.com, vwak@ wrote:
> >
> > Helen,
> >
> >
> >
> > I have Iris 'Contraband Girl' growing in my garden and yes under
> favorable conditions it will get as tall as you describe. I also
> have other clones of Iris virginica that get as tall as or taller
> than 'Contraband Girl.' However, when I feel the leaves of
> I. 'Contraband Girl' between my thumb and fingers and every other I.
> virginica that I have had experience with, I always detect a central
> ridge area. It is much more pronounced on some clones but I don't
> ever remember not feeling it. Is their any possibility that they
> could have substituted one of the Louisiana Iris species (e.g., I.
> giganticaerulea), as I have seen some Louisiana type wild clones that
> will get pretty tall? If so, you would not feel a central ridge on
> their leaves. However, I. giganticaerulea blooms are not usually way
> down in the leaves as you describe.
> >
> >
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: hldlily<mailto:hdeclercq@
> > To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-
> species@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 10:53 PM
> > Subject: [iris-species] Virginica "Contraband Girl" was Re:
> Distinguishing Pseudacorus from Versicolor?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All
> >
> > Once the yellow iris were removed I've had some time to ponder
> and Vic's
> > points have been sinking in. I really don't see how the blue iris
> > planted by the contracors can be versicolor. Those is standing
> water
> > are taller than me. (I'm 5'5".) Their flowers were much lower than
> > their taller leaves reaching only about midway in height, if
> even.
> > Those in the nearby ground didn't grow as tall. The plants in the
> > standing water are very vigorous having grown to this height
> after being
> > planted out as peat pots last spring 2007.
> >
> > As noted in earlier posts the leaves were without prominent
> veining.
> > (On close insepection there was numerous, ~15 veins, but no
> dominant
> > veins.) They were also thinner than pseudacorus (3/4" vs. 1") and
> a bit
> > bluer.
> >
> > Assuming the contractors made a substitution, the only blue iris
> I could
> > find that reaches heights of 6' was the Iris Virginica selection
> > "Contaband Girl". Does anyone here grow that? If so can you tell
> me if
> > your plants are consistent with my observations. If not, any
> ideas?
> > It's no emergency now - I'm just curious. :)
> >
> > -Helen
> >
> > --- In iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, <vwak@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Helen,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If the flowers are yellow definitely yank the plants out. In my
> > experience pseudacorus usually has a more prominent midrib than
> > versicolor; however, now much more prominent does it have to be
> to make
> > an ID? If one feels the leaves between their thumb and fingers,
> the
> > midrib on pseudacorus, virginica, and versicolor usually become
> evident
> > without actually looking at the leaf. I should add that many wild
> > virginica populations that I am familiar with in the southeast are
> > flushed with purple at the base. All of these iris species are
> variable
> > in nature and undoubtedly there are many ecotypes that have
> evolved
> > responding to different environmental pressures. I suspect that
> > pseudocorus will grow as well or maybe even better in the Mid-
> Atlantic
> > than in the warmer areas along the Gulf coast. It has been my
> experience
> > that in areas where it gets little winter chilling it blooms
> sparsely
> > even though it grows robustly. Also, be aware that pseudacorus
> will
> > readily reseeded itself in some areas. Even if the plants are not
> > versicolor and the flowers are not yellow, it probably is an iris
> worth
> > growing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I wish you much success in replanting the watershed.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Vic
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: hldlily<mailto:hdeclercq@
> > > To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
> 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-
> species%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:06 AM
> > > Subject: Fw: [iris-species] Re: Distinguishing Pseudacorus from
> > Versicolor?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Vic,
> > > Both are in bloom now, one yellow and the other blue. The
> original
> > > plans had only Iris versicolor and pseudocorus on them along
> with
> > > other native plants such as pickerelweed. They were then
> supposed to
> > > substitute Cardinal Flower and additional iris versicolor for
> the
> > > pseudocorus. Obviously that didnt' happen with 100% accuracy so
> I
> > > can't be really sure of anything!
> > >
> > > One poster mentioned that their versicolor has a few prominent
> veins
> > > and that they were less sharpley pronounced than in
> pseudocorus. On
> > > the web I've found mention of its foliage being ribbed yet on
> other
> > > sites from close-up photos no veins were obvious.
> > >
> > > Is Versicolor a variable species in the wild? Also how much
> > > difference is there between cultivars?
> > >
> > > Whatever blue iris we have down there it is tall (some of it
> leaves
> > > reach 5'), with flower stalks significantly lower than the
> leaves,
> > > with smooth foliage that is somewhat narrower (3/4" vs 1") and
> > > slightly darker bluer green than the pseudacorus leaves. It may
> be a
> > > mystery but the smooth foliage has the advantage of making it
> easily
> > > distinguishable from the pseudocorus. (When I say smooth I mean
> no
> > > prominent veins. All veins are the same size and quite small,
> > > visible only on close inspection, with about 15 of them running
> > > closely spaced next to each other up the strap.)
> > >
> > > The Mid-Atlantic has fairly mild growing conditions so I
> imagine the
> > > pseudocorus would grow pretty well here - though probably not
> as well
> > > as in Florida!
> > >
> > > -Helen
> > >
> > > --- In
> > iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
> 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:iris-species%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > vwak@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Vwak@<mailto:Vwak@
> > > > To:
> > iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
> 40yahoogroupscom><mailto:iris-species%40yahoogroups.com><mail\
> > to:iris-
> > > species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:species%
> 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:species%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:49 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [iris-species] Re: Distinguishing Pseudacorus
> from
> > > Versicolor?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Helen,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have been reading the postings of how to distinguish I.
> > > pseudacorus, I. virginica, and I. versicolor with much interest.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > First, I agree that pseudacorus should be removed from the
> > > habitat. In my part of the world (SE US) it can take over and
> crowd
> > > out desirable native wetland plants, including native irises.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If one is familiar with the above mentioned irises one can
> tell
> > > most pseudacorus by looks and size. It usually is taller than
> the
> > > other species.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am very dubious about distinguishing virginica by the
> cauline
> > > leaves frequently overtopping the flowers. I grow some virginica
> > > clones originally collected from the wild where the norm is for
> the
> > > flowers to be above the leaves. I have seen wild populations
> where
> > > that is the norm.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Even though versicolor is not native to the lower south, I
> grow
> > > some clones originally from further north. Helen's statement
> that
> > > the versicolor leaves in the area under question are perfectly
> > > smooth, i.e., they have no center ridge surprised me. In far as
> I
> > > can recall, I have always seen a center ridge on all
> pseudacorus,
> > > virginica, and versicolor clones that I have looked at. I
> > > immediately went out in my garden and the versicolor in my
> garden all
> > > had center ridges.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible that some other species of iris has been
> planted?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vic
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Victor W. Lambou
> > > >
> > > > Crawfordville Florida
> > > >
> > > > Zone 8B
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: hldlily<mailto:hdeclercq@
> > > > To:
> > iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
> 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:iris-species%40yahoogroups.com><mail\
> > to:iris-
> > > species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:species%
> 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:species%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:51 PM
> > > > Subject: [iris-species] Re: Distinguishing Pseudacorus from
> > > Versicolor?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Kenneth and James,
> > > >
> > > > I went down to the stream and since versicolor is also in
> bloom I
> > > was
> > > > able to identify the plants and compare their foliage. Sure
> > > enough,
> > > > the pseudacorus has a nice sharp ridge down the center that is
> > > easily
> > > > seen and felt while the versicolor we have is totally smooth.
> > > Even a
> > > > lay person like myself couldn't mistake them - now that,
> thanks
> > > to
> > > > the species-iris group, I know what to look for.
> > > >
> > > > The watershed director is very happy that we won't have to
> pull
> > > > everything up. Besides the painful thought of losing hundreds
> of
> > > blue
> > > > iris we would have had a freshly denuded landscape, a
> landscape
> > > just
> > > > recovering from all the construction work last year.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks so much for your help!
> > > >
> > > > -Helen
> > > >
> > > > --- In
> > iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
> 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:iris-species%40yahoogroups.com><mail\
> > to:iris-species%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>, Kenneth Walker <kenww@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Helen,
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking at several varieties of each species in my garden,
> > > > pseudacorus
> > > > > does have a prominent ridge in the center of the leaf
> composed
> > > of a
> > > > > single vein. Versicolor has a less prominent ridge composed
> of
> > > 3
> > > > veins.
> > > > > I'd suggest someone compare leaves from a sample of plants
> in
> > > the
> > > > > wetland to see if they can be divided into two categories.
> Each
> > > > > volunteer could be armed with a sample leaf from each
> species
> > > when
> > > > > identifying the pseudacorus for eradication.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken Walker
> > > > >
> > > > > James Harrison PhD wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pseudacorus has a sharp vein in the middle of each leaf.
> Some
> > > > other
> > > > > > iris have a less prominent vein, like JI, but I think
> this is
> > > > the
> > > > > > easy way to pick out Pseudacorus.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
