Dear H,
I am also an academic; I do not suffer from OCD. I enjoy
OCD. However, it takes time to find somethings out, so if you have a good blue
apogon iris, relax. There are some extremely experience folk on this list,
and if you post photos next spring, of photos you have from this spring, you are
very likely to get a positive identification, at least to species if not to
variety.
Who knows which ice age pushed the Lousianias so far
south, but they bloom later than versicolor and virginica, so a cross is less
likely there, if not impossible.
I live in an old, 1950s, burb "Oak Forest," of about
140 well spaced homes, now on the very south side of the city about 5
miles from the center of Asheville. We collectively own 4 acres facing US 25, a
major highway, which is preserved as parkland, with a nice stream running
through it, which buffers the neighborhood from highway noise. I am three
crooked blocks in, but higher in elevation.
Long ago I learned that it is easier to ask for
forgiveness than to ask permission, so I planted iris that like wet feet on this
small stream bank 10 years ago when I moved into this neighborhood.
Downstream, South of our main entrance, I planted pseudacorus.
Upstream I planted a variety of lavegetae [Sorry, with PhD in hand I never
learned to spell, nor have any motivation to] including Ensata, Virginica
, Versacolor, and Lousianas.
On one corner, between well established azalias I have put
in a back row of red daylillies and a front row of small siberians. and on
another corner, a bed of white spurias, all overflow from my garden. I get
praise and thanks ffrom others.
I am monitoring, casually this stream as it flows 1/2 mile
by a bank, and another 1/2 mile to a pond in front
of the High School serving the S. part of the county, and then into a small
lake, and then eventually into the French Broad River, The French Broad, a very
large river for mountainous regions since it drains such a large basin of
temperate rain forests which has no other outlet, and which flows north, also
unusual for an American river, into the Tennessee, and ultimatelly into
the Mississippi at Paducah, KY. Pseudacorus is not so invasive, for I
have not seen any down stream yet, but given 1000 years it may be hybridizing
with the Lousianas in the Delta.
But what is the worst that he could do? It may even
prevent erosion, and could also serve as a buffer filter, so I am not going to
worry about it.
There are worse invaders, I do not worry about
kudzu. It is a legume, and therefore a nitrogen setter, and can be pulled
out and fed to cattle. I think our worse invasive scourge is Chinese
bittersweet, actually pretty, but it destroys our native bittersweet. Second
only to poison ivy as a pest.
See how I enjoy my OCD??
James
----- Original Message -----
From:
h*@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:17
PM
Subject: [iris-species] Virginica
"Contraband Girl" was Re: Distinguishing Pseudacorus from Versicolor?
Hi James,
Yeah, the only problem with the Pseudacorus was that
it had been planted
at the upstream end of an open waterway during a stream
restoration.
Our municipal storm and sewer systems are separate so our
stormwater
pipes empty directly into streams. The engineering to manage the
force
of the stormwater and keep a natural environment (vs. turning it into
a
culvert) is actually pretty impressive. The stream bed and banks
were
graded and completely rebuilt and the wetland was put in so storm
water
would spread over a large area and then flow into the stream at
lower
velocity. Of course with the water goes seed.
But otherwise
Pseudacorus was actually very pretty and a strong hardy
plant. I can see
why it would be desirable in a more controlled
situation. My neighbor has
some in her garden pond she keeps contained
in a bucket and it works quite
well for her.
My interest in identifying the blue iris now is one of
curiosity. I am
an academic (for good or for ill!) so I want all the pieces
of the
puzzle to fit - even if there's no good purpose to it. I just
can't
help myself.
:)
Interesting about Sestosa and
Virginica, now do you know if "virginal
virginica" or that bad boy Sestosa
got together with giganticarulea?
-Helen
--- In iris-species@yahoogroups.com,
"James Harrison PhD" <JBHPHD@...>
wrote:
>
> I say, relax
already, as long as you have a blue/ purple iris. I agree
not to feature
pseudacorus.
>
> Theory has it that during one of the ice ages,
that Alaskan Setosa
move further and further south, and married our
virginica, and when the
ice retreated there was a child called versicolor,
in NE with exactly
the additive number of chromosomes of our virginal
virginica + Sestosa..
>
> I live in Asheville, NC 2000' above the
coastal wetlands, where it is
much cooler and I cannot give them wet feet
at my house.. Here, neither
of these specis is so robust. In fact, I am not
able to tell them apart
with certainty, though I know that I have both. I
think they are
interfertile, and there are probably many hybrids between
them, or
should I say among them for I also have some
Setosa..
>
> Ensata, the Japanese Iris also has a central vein,
but it is not as
prominent as pseudacorus, but Ensata blooms much
later.
>
> My suggestion is, relax and enjoy. Get rid of the
yellow, if it
appears next year, but there is some use for pseudacorus, if
you want
it. I do in some locations.
>
> James
Harrison
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
hldlily
> To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com
>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:36 PM
> Subject: [iris-species] Virginica
"Contraband Girl" was Re:
Distinguishing Pseudacorus from
Versicolor?
>
>
> Hi Vic,
>
> If the contractors
made some "on the fly" subsitution because the
> nursery was out of
versicolor aanything is possible. The wetlands
> planting was one of the
last things they were doing as the contract
> ended.
>
> Are
there differences between the blue iris' in the arrangement of
> the
leaves as they come out of the rhizome?
>
> I ask because I
noticed that the Iris pseudacorus had their leaves
> emerging "fan-like"
from the water so if you were to take a cross
> section it would be long
and narrow (similar to the garden bearded
> iris I
have).
>
> The blue iris has leaves that are nested in a somewhat
cupped way
> towards the bottom so the cross section would be more
circular -
> approaching "scallion-like" more than
fan-like.
>
> Unfortunately I didn't take a photo of the blue iris
blooms. It
> seems, from the web pages I looked at, that the Iris
giganticaerulea
> blooms look different enough from versicolor to
distinguish them.
> (Is that correct?)
>
> I'm encouraged by
your reports of tall versicolor (though still
> confused by the lack of
a mid vein) so I hope that's what it is. The
> Giganticaerulea looks
beautiful and would be great in a private
> garden, but it's not native
anywhere on the East Coast so it's not
> the best choice for an open
Maryland waterway.
>
> -Helen
>
>
> --- In iris-species@yahoogroups.com,
vwak@ wrote:
> >
> > Helen,
> >
>
>
> >
> > I have Iris 'Contraband Girl' growing in my
garden and yes under
> favorable conditions it will get as tall as you
describe. I also
> have other clones of Iris virginica that get as tall
as or taller
> than 'Contraband Girl.' However, when I feel the leaves
of
> I. 'Contraband Girl' between my thumb and fingers and every other
I.
> virginica that I have had experience with, I always detect a
central
> ridge area. It is much more pronounced on some clones but I
don't
> ever remember not feeling it. Is their any possibility that
they
> could have substituted one of the Louisiana Iris species (e.g.,
I.
> giganticaerulea), as I have seen some Louisiana type wild
clones that
> will get pretty tall? If so, you would not feel a central
ridge on
> their leaves. However, I. giganticaerulea blooms are not
usually way
> down in the leaves as you describe.
> >
>
>
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
Message -----
> > From: hldlily<mailto:hdeclercq@
>
> To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-
>
species@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 10:53 PM
> > Subject: [iris-species]
Virginica "Contraband Girl" was Re:
> Distinguishing Pseudacorus from
Versicolor?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All
>
>
> > Once the yellow iris were removed I've had some time to
ponder
> and Vic's
> > points have been sinking in. I really
don't see how the blue iris
> > planted by the contracors can be
versicolor. Those is standing
> water
> > are taller than me.
(I'm 5'5".) Their flowers were much lower than
> > their taller
leaves reaching only about midway in height, if
> even.
> >
Those in the nearby ground didn't grow as tall. The plants in the
> >
standing water are very vigorous having grown to this height
> after
being
> > planted out as peat pots last spring 2007.
>
>
> > As noted in earlier posts the leaves were without
prominent
> veining.
> > (On close insepection there was
numerous, ~15 veins, but no
> dominant
> > veins.) They were
also thinner than pseudacorus (3/4" vs. 1") and
> a bit
> >
bluer.
> >
> > Assuming the contractors made a substitution,
the only blue iris
> I could
> > find that reaches heights of
6' was the Iris Virginica selection
> > "Contaband Girl". Does anyone
here grow that? If so can you tell
> me if
> > your plants are
consistent with my observations. If not, any
> ideas?
> > It's
no emergency now - I'm just curious. :)
> >
> >
-Helen
> >
> > --- In iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
>
40yahoogroups.com>, <vwak@> wrote:
> > >
>
> >
> > > Hi Helen,
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> > > If the flowers are yellow definitely
yank the plants out. In my
> > experience pseudacorus usually has a
more prominent midrib than
> > versicolor; however, now much more
prominent does it have to be
> to make
> > an ID? If one feels
the leaves between their thumb and fingers,
> the
> > midrib on
pseudacorus, virginica, and versicolor usually become
> evident
>
> without actually looking at the leaf. I should add that many wild
>
> virginica populations that I am familiar with in the southeast
are
> > flushed with purple at the base. All of these iris species
are
> variable
> > in nature and undoubtedly there are many
ecotypes that have
> evolved
> > responding to different
environmental pressures. I suspect that
> > pseudocorus will grow as
well or maybe even better in the Mid-
> Atlantic
> > than in
the warmer areas along the Gulf coast. It has been my
>
experience
> > that in areas where it gets little winter chilling it
blooms
> sparsely
> > even though it grows robustly. Also, be
aware that pseudacorus
> will
> > readily reseeded itself in
some areas. Even if the plants are not
> > versicolor and the flowers
are not yellow, it probably is an iris
> worth
> >
growing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> I wish you much success in replanting the watershed.
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Vic
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
hldlily<mailto:hdeclercq@
> > > To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
>
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-
>
species%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 21,
2008 1:06 AM
> > > Subject: Fw: [iris-species] Re: Distinguishing
Pseudacorus from
> > Versicolor?
> > >
> >
>
> > > Hi Vic,
> > > Both are in bloom now, one
yellow and the other blue. The
> original
> > > plans had
only Iris versicolor and pseudocorus on them along
> with
> >
> other native plants such as pickerelweed. They were then
> supposed
to
> > > substitute Cardinal Flower and additional iris versicolor
for
> the
> > > pseudocorus. Obviously that didnt' happen
with 100% accuracy so
> I
> > > can't be really sure of
anything!
> > >
> > > One poster mentioned that their
versicolor has a few prominent
> veins
> > > and that they
were less sharpley pronounced than in
> pseudocorus. On
> >
> the web I've found mention of its foliage being ribbed yet on
>
other
> > > sites from close-up photos no veins were
obvious.
> > >
> > > Is Versicolor a variable species
in the wild? Also how much
> > > difference is there between
cultivars?
> > >
> > > Whatever blue iris we have down
there it is tall (some of it
> leaves
> > > reach 5'), with
flower stalks significantly lower than the
> leaves,
> > >
with smooth foliage that is somewhat narrower (3/4" vs 1") and
> >
> slightly darker bluer green than the pseudacorus leaves. It may
>
be a
> > > mystery but the smooth foliage has the advantage of
making it
> easily
> > > distinguishable from the
pseudocorus. (When I say smooth I mean
> no
> > > prominent
veins. All veins are the same size and quite small,
> > > visible
only on close inspection, with about 15 of them running
> > >
closely spaced next to each other up the strap.)
> > >
>
> > The Mid-Atlantic has fairly mild growing conditions so I
>
imagine the
> > > pseudocorus would grow pretty well here - though
probably not
> as well
> > > as in Florida!
> >
>
> > > -Helen
> > >
> > > ---
In
> > iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
>
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:iris-species%40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> vwak@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From:
Vwak@<mailto:Vwak@
> > > > To:
> > iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
>
40yahoogroupscom><mailto:iris-species%40yahoogroups.com><mail\
>
> to:iris-
> > > species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:species%
>
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:species%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:49 PM
> > > >
Subject: Re: [iris-species] Re: Distinguishing Pseudacorus
>
from
> > > Versicolor?
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > > Helen,
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > I have been reading the
postings of how to distinguish I.
> > > pseudacorus, I. virginica,
and I. versicolor with much interest.
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > First, I agree that
pseudacorus should be removed from the
> > > habitat. In my part
of the world (SE US) it can take over and
> crowd
> > > out
desirable native wetland plants, including native irises.
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If
one is familiar with the above mentioned irises one can
> tell
>
> > most pseudacorus by looks and size. It usually is taller
than
> the
> > > other species.
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am
very dubious about distinguishing virginica by the
> cauline
>
> > leaves frequently overtopping the flowers. I grow some
virginica
> > > clones originally collected from the wild where
the norm is for
> the
> > > flowers to be above the leaves.
I have seen wild populations
> where
> > > that is the
norm.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > > Even though versicolor is not native to the lower
south, I
> grow
> > > some clones originally from further
north. Helen's statement
> that
> > > the versicolor leaves
in the area under question are perfectly
> > > smooth, i.e., they
have no center ridge surprised me. In far as
> I
> > > can
recall, I have always seen a center ridge on all
> pseudacorus,
>
> > virginica, and versicolor clones that I have looked at. I
>
> > immediately went out in my garden and the versicolor in my
>
garden all
> > > had center ridges.
> > > >
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible
that some other species of iris has been
> planted?
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
Vic
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > > Victor W. Lambou
> > > >
>
> > > Crawfordville Florida
> > > >
> > >
> Zone 8B
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> From: hldlily<mailto:hdeclercq@
> > > >
To:
> > iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
>
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:iris-species%40yahoogroups.com><mail\
>
> to:iris-
> > > species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:species%
>
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:species%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:51 PM
> > > >
Subject: [iris-species] Re: Distinguishing Pseudacorus from
> > >
Versicolor?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> Hi Kenneth and James,
> > > >
> > > > I
went down to the stream and since versicolor is also in
> bloom
I
> > > was
> > > > able to identify the plants and
compare their foliage. Sure
> > > enough,
> > > >
the pseudacorus has a nice sharp ridge down the center that is
> >
> easily
> > > > seen and felt while the versicolor we have
is totally smooth.
> > > Even a
> > > > lay person
like myself couldn't mistake them - now that,
> thanks
> > >
to
> > > > the species-iris group, I know what to look
for.
> > > >
> > > > The watershed director is
very happy that we won't have to
> pull
> > > >
everything up. Besides the painful thought of losing hundreds
>
of
> > > blue
> > > > iris we would have had a
freshly denuded landscape, a
> landscape
> > > just
>
> > > recovering from all the construction work last year.
>
> > >
> > > > Thanks so much for your help!
>
> > >
> > > > -Helen
> > > >
>
> > > --- In
> > iris-species@yahoogroups.com<mailto:iris-species%
>
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:iris-species%40yahoogroups.com><mail\
>
> to:iris-species%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>, Kenneth
Walker <kenww@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > >
> > Helen,
> > > > >
> > > > >
Looking at several varieties of each species in my garden,
> > >
> pseudacorus
> > > > > does have a prominent ridge in
the center of the leaf
> composed
> > > of a
> >
> > > single vein. Versicolor has a less prominent ridge
composed
> of
> > > 3
> > > > veins.
>
> > > > I'd suggest someone compare leaves from a sample of
plants
> in
> > > the
> > > > > wetland to
see if they can be divided into two categories.
> Each
> > >
> > volunteer could be armed with a sample leaf from each
>
species
> > > when
> > > > > identifying the
pseudacorus for eradication.
> > > > >
> > >
> > Ken Walker
> > > > >
> > > > >
James Harrison PhD wrote:
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > Pseudacorus has a sharp vein in the middle of each
leaf.
> Some
> > > > other
> > > > >
> iris have a less prominent vein, like JI, but I think
> this
is
> > > > the
> > > > > > easy way to
pick out Pseudacorus.
> > > > > >
> > > >
>
> > > >
> > >
>
>
>
|
