RE: Re: SPEC-X

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I have to agree with Robert's comments here.  The SIGNA membership should be cheering that a hybrid in the SPEC=X class was awarded.  It is certainly a step in the right direction, even if it does look a lot like a TB.

I think that some of the comments here are quite frankly silly.  Of course 'Dolce' qualifies as a "Species X", but it also looks a lot like a TB.  It could go in either class, but since it has the recent I. aphylla parentage, I see no reason for it to be excluded from the "Species X" category.  It is not misplaced, so why get so upset about it?  It is a broad category designed to include a broad range of plants.  If it is decided by a majority of relevant AIS members that the class should not include plants that can be put into other existing categories, then fine, in that case perhaps 'Dolce' and others like it should be excluded, but I don't think as it stands now there anything wrong with 'Dolce' being included in that class, and there is nothing wrong with it winning an award.  'Dolce' is very TB like, but it also shows the influence of I. aphylla, and that influence makes it worthy of being considered as one of a range of Irises included in the "Species X" category.  The bias toward "modern" looking bearded Iris among judges is another question separate from the definition of this particular class, and it may indeed be an issue worth addressing further within the AIS.  However, 'Dolce' is legitamately included in this class, and was deemed worthy of award by those judging, and that should be good enough.  To be honest, I think it was a step in a direction toward open-mindedness that this Iris actually did win, since it is NOT considered a member of the TB class.  At least the class barrier is being breached, even if the cultivar in question does still resemble the favored class.  Not everyone will ever agree on any award given, and that is because we have diverse preferences and opinions.   The diversity is wonderful, and the enthusiastic _expression_ of diverse opinions equally so, but the petty bickering is silly.   If enough AIS members disagree, then they can become judges themselves and add their influence and biases to the pool of judges, and they can also express their opinions when it comes time to choose who is judging a given show in which they have an interest.  If one is not an AIS member, well - what does it matter?

I think it is a shame that so many people in SIGNA (or otherwise) have criticized this instead of showing an open mind toward the situation.  Just the fact that a "Species X" won, is a step toward validation of some of what SIGNA stands for.  Yes, I am biased, I would love to see a pure species, or at least something near win such an award, because I love these wild type plants.  I really like some of the first and second generation hybrids derived from wild species as well.  I like TB Iris too, just not as much, and I like all the other Iris too, in fact I like most plants - there are very few that I truly dislike.  I think they are ALL worthy of recognition just as much as the most ruffled full-flowered giant TB.  However,  it remains a fact that TB Iris are the mainstay of Iris horticulture and that will continue to be reflected in Iris competitions and showings.   It doesn't make the other Iris any less, it just means that they get different kinds of recognition and following.  The fact is that in horticulture, even the species hybrids will be favored most if they look the least like the wild species and the more like some sort of cheerleader's pom-pom.  It's just the way of things when human nature and preferences come into play.  Look at the direction that Siberian, Japanese, Louisiana, and even Spuria Iris cultivars are going.  They are all getting rounder tepals, less drooping falls, often they are ruffled or have crinkly margins, there are more and more doubles.  In other words, they are all trending in the same basic direction as TB Iris, and as most other flowers popularly bread in cultivation (look at Roses, Dahlias, Daylilies, etc. etc. etc.).  So, I don't get why breeders of ruffly big flat Japanese Iris would criticize the same thing in TB Iris (!! ??).  Personally, I am in the minority.  While these may often make a bold statement in the garden, I will always love the wild types and pick them over the hybridized puff-balls.  My bias, but not any better than anyone else's, it's simply mine.  And, I'm getting off track here, a bit.  :0)

From what I've read here (I can't really speak for Paul Black), I get the impression that perhaps Paul considered 'Dolce' to be BOTH a "Species X" and a TB.  There is no reason it can't be both (actually - it IS both).  It probably just came down to a decision as to which class to go with.  Putting it in "Species X" would certainly help to capitalize on it's recent species ancestry and the traits it gained from that parentage.   My understanding is that is precisely one of the goals of having such a class.

Dave Ferguson

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To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com
From: robertpries@embarqmail.com
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:14:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [iris-species] Re: SPEC-X