Re: HYB: inheritance of LIGHT rims?

Thanks Jeff, for taking a stab at answering my question(s), but I think you
misunderstood.  However, I'm not sure....

The question is, how many doses of LIGHT rims on DARK falls does an iris have
to have in order to express light rims?  How many doses of light standards does
it take to have light standards?  Are the two inherited together?

I was asking about inheritance of light colored rims on dark falls rather than
Emma Cook/Joyce Terry type dark rims on light falls.  So the pattern (s?) I'm
interested in are the mirror image of Emma Cook.  Or did you mean it is a type
of Emma Cook?

From some earlier discussion, I thought somebody suggested the light rims were
linked to plicata genes or on the same allele(s), but more recently, I got some
offlist comments that makes me think I must have misunderstood.

The three irises that have showed up in pedigrees of all the "light rimmed"
irises that I've tracked back are, as you mention, WINE AND ROSES, WABASH plus
those from SHAH JEHAN.  W&R has pink ground, WABASH has white ground, and SHAH
JEHAN has sort of cream ground.  I haven't bothered tracing pedigrees of
typical variegata patterns, assuming they go all the way back to "I.
variegata", but I do wonder if the other three are of the same heredity as I.
variegata, but with yellow replaced by pink in some, blue added along with
inhibitors in others.

In any case, I still don't know how the light rims and how the color of the
light tops are inherited.  There are some new ones out with anthocyanins in the
standards and yellow rims around dark falls and I think I even saw a
description of one with yellow in the standards and light blue rim around a
dark fall.


Jeff and Carolyn Walters wrote:

> > From: Linda Mann
> > My favorite patterns are the light tops/dark falls with light rims.
> >
> > These mostly seem to come in four types -(1) yellow pigmented ground with
> > anthocyanin "shadow" on the falls (variegatas); (2) pink ground with
> > anthocyanin on the falls (?not sure what these might be called); (3)
> white
> > ground with anthocyanin on the falls (amoenas with light rims); and (4)
> > anthocyanin ground with more pigment on the falls (neglectas with light
> > rims).
>
> Linda,
>
> The classic "Emma Cook" pattern is white standards and falls with a
> non-plicata anthocyanin rim on the falls only. According to a recent post
> from Fred Kerr, who has done a lot of work with this pattern, it is the
> effect of complete homozygosity (4 doses) of the PROGENITOR "Dominant
> Amoena" allele. The classic EC pattern occurs in irises which also have
> genes for the complete inhibition of carotenoid pigments.
>
> Your patterns #1 and 2 represent the expression of the "Emma Cook" pattern
> in irises in which the carotenoid pigments are also expressed. In #1 the
> pigment is yellow; in #2 the yellow pigment is replaced by the recessive
> pink (lycopene) pigment (if you meant that the anthocyanin is on the rims
> of the falls).
>
> If you meant for #2 that the anthocyanin is in the center of the falls with
> a ligher, rather than a darker rim, then all pedigrees of irises exhibiting
> that kind of pattern that I have looked at, and which can be traced far
> enough backward, lead to WINE AND ROSES (D. Hall, R&I 1963). The Checklist
> description of W&R is "S. rose-pink; F. violet purple edged rose-pink."
> Unfortunately, the only pedigree info on W&R in the Checklist is "from two
> sdlgs of same coloring", so the origin of the pattern cannot be traced
> further back by that means.
>
> Possibly, your patterns #3 and #4 probably represent the W&R rim in an iris
> that has
> carotenoid expression suppressed. In #3 there would be full, and in #4
> partial,
> PROGENITOR Dominant Amoena suppression of anthocyanin in the standards (1
> or 2 doses(?)).
>
> There is a third genetically different pattern that produces distinct,
> non-plicata bands on the rims of the falls that is not represented in your
> four examples. That is the "Joyce Terry" pattern, which affects only
> carotenoid pigments and produces flowers with reduced carotenoid diffused
> throughout the standards and white falls with a more intrnsely pigmented
> carotenoid rim. This might better be called the "Palomino" pattern as the
> cultivar of that name (D. Hall, R. 1951, I. 1952) is the first exemplar. It
> is apparently a recessive pattern that arose from Hall's tangerine-bearded
> pink breeding lines.
>
> There is also presumably still another gene effect responsible for the
> light colored fall rim on recessive amoenas/variegatas, such as WABASH.
>
> Jeff Walters in northern Utah  (USDA Zone 4/5, Sunset Zone 2, AHS Zone 7)
> jcwalters@bridgernet.com

--
Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
Updates on migrant whooping cranes:
http://www.savingcranes.org/whatsnew/Class2002FloridaMain.asp
American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
iris-talk/Mallorn archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
iris-photos/Mallorn archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
message text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS
Other Mailing lists | Author Index | Date Index | Subject Index | Thread Index