Re: Re: HYB: another terminology question
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: HYB: another terminology question
  • From: B* W* <a*@aol.com>
  • Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 11:16:38 -0500 (EST)
I was told, by reputed hybridizers, that this is common in plicata and amoena crosses. Both irises have seedlings as parentage with no known cultivars as parents. How can we know what the contributions of 'Highland Chief?' 


Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology question
As colour genes are nuclear, and no modifications in colour from extra-nuclear genes, I'd have to say stray pollen or some sort of other error. The next thing I'd look at is soil or location differences.There can be conformation and size differences in reciprocal crosses, but I haven't heard of anything resulting in colour differences of this degree. I would expect this sort of range of colour that you described, if Peach Spot was partially selfed, and partially crossed to a yellow halo type of iris, or or had a yellow halo iris as pollen donner, that had a orange parent. There is nothing in Highland Chief that could produce these colours.Chuck Chapman-----Original Message-----From: Betty Wilkerson <autmirislvr@aol.com>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 3:35 pmSubject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology questionThe first year I was making crosses I did a cross between Peach Spotand Highland Chief and also did the reverse. 'Peach Spot' is a whiteiris with a peach spot on the fall. Highland Chief is a beautiful redon yellow/cream plicata from Gibson. Approximately, 30 each way.All 25+ of the PS X HC were approximately 18 inches tall with four bigblooms. (Big Bertha even bloomed on fall.) They all looked alike.They could have been clones from the same rhizome. But, they weren't.They were siblings.The ones with 'Highland Chief' as pod parent produced a wide variety ofseedlings, all tall and multi branched, some with triple teminals. Acouple were peach selfs. One was a bright orange self. Several hadwhite falls with yellow standards and fall rings. It was one of themost educational and intriguing crosses I've ever made.They definitely did not look like siblings. There were nocharacteristics in common. The one batch was VERY ugly, while theothers were all goreous.How come if they are siblings?Betty WilkersonZone 6 KYautmirislvr@aol.com-----Original Message-----From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:56 amSubject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology questionFor sibling cross, it wouldn't make any difference when cross was madeor which parent was pod or which pollen.Why pod and pollen parentwouldn't matter is because the genes controlling major factors ofcolour and pattern are not located in plastids or mitochondria. As togetting plant characteristics it would play a role. They are both sibs.So a sib cross to pull out or evaluate recessives will still work.But the reverse cross do have different genetics in terms of extra-nuclear genes, but are siblings.Chuck Chapman-----Original Message-----From:Betty Wilkerson <autmirislvr@aol.com>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent: Sat,Feb 23, 2013 11:13 amSubject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminologyquestionSiblings are any seedlings that come from the same cross.Example:'Treasured' X 'Renown'. Treasured is the pod parent and Renownis thepollen parent.A reverse cross would be 'Renown' X 'Treasure'. Itis not the same.Technically . . . if Linda made the same cross fiveyears later theywould be siblings. They are still the same cross.Eachseedlings in a pod is different, even if it can not be seen withthenaked eye. So, the fact that the seedlings in Linda's cross wouldlookdifferent than the ones in my cross would be expected, even thoughtheywould still (most) look like siblings.Does this help?BettyWilkersonZone 6 KYautmirislvr@aol.com-----Original Message-----From:Shaub Dunkley <miscaccts@bellsouth.net>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent:Fri, Feb 22, 2013 5:21 pmSubject: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminologyquestionHey group -Hope this formats correctly - was unclear about howto postto the list. I've lurked for some time on a learning curve.Long curveto go but gotta stumble in somewhere.It would seem being abletodistinguish between pod sibling and sibling separated by time hasvalueworth conserving. Fraternal twins have less chance ofbeingstep-sibling. Across time, particularly across years, there ismorechance that records might have got mixed up, or field labels gotmixedup and Daddy Joe then is not Daddy Joe now, etc. (same for Mom).Mightnot a discriminating (subsequent) hybridizer want to utilizesiblingknown to be from within the same pod if he wanted to criticallyimprovechances of breeding within a certain gene pool?I'm stillfiguring outto sleuth cross information in the registry but it isapparent somehybridizers use numbering systems that are fairlytransparent as to whoare pod sibling and who are across-time sibling.Gold stars to them.BTW- are there better terms than pod siblings andacross-timesiblings?Shaub DunkleyAsheville, North CarolinaZ6b-----OriginalMessage----- From: Tom Waters <irises@telp.com> To:iris<iris@hort.net> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:11 am Subject: [iris]HYB:another terminology questionWhile we're at it, I'm interested inhowpeople understand the term "sibling". I've seen it sometimesapparentlyrestricted to two irises that came from the same pod of seed,or atleast the product of the cross of two plants made by thesamehybridizer in the same year. It seems to me that since the twoparentsare clones, any irises with the same parentage are siblings,even ifthe crosses that produced them were made many years or milesapart bydifferent people. My own brother and sisters, for example, areno lessmy brother and sisters for having been gestated separately atdifferenttimes. ;) Tom Waters Telperion Oasis ~ www.telp.com/irisesCuyamungue,New Mexico, USA (zone 6)----------------------------------------From:"Tom Waters"<irises@telp.com>Sent: Friday, February 22, 20137:22AMTo:------------------------------------------------------------ ---------To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.netwiththemessage text UNSUBSCRIBEIRIS---------------------------------------------------------- -----------To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with themessagetext UNSUBSCRIBEIRIS---------------------------------------------------------- -----------To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with themessagetext UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS--------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with themessage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS--------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with themessage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS 

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