Re: Re: HYB: another terminology question
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: HYB: another terminology question
  • From: C* C* <i*@aim.com>
  • Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:11:41 -0500 (EST)
Not sure what you meant by "This is common"

Striking colour differences in reciprical crosses?
Orange seedlings?
Joyce Terry Pattern?
or?
Peach Spot isn't an amoena, it is spot pattern, variegata spot to be specific. This is often confused with amoena, but they are different. If the amoena has a rim that doesn't have anthrocyanin, it likely is a variegata spot.
There isn't any indication that Highland Chief carries the genetics to produce an orange, (two different recessive genes, tangerine and alternative yellow). and to expect them to combine with the recessive alternative yellow, with Pink Spot, which would have less then four copies of this gene. 

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Wilkerson <autmirislvr@aol.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 25, 2013 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology question

I was told, by reputed hybridizers, that this is common in plicata and
amoena crosses.  Both irises have seedlings as parentage with no known
cultivars as parents. How can we know what the contributions of
'Highland Chief?'


Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology question


As colour genes are nuclear, and no modifications in colour from
extra-nuclear genes, I'd have to say stray pollen or some sort of other
error. The next thing I'd look at is soil or location differences.There
can  be conformation and size differences in reciprocal crosses, but I
haven't heard of anything resulting in colour differences of this
degree.  I would expect this sort of range of colour  that you
described, if Peach Spot was partially selfed, and partially crossed to
a yellow halo type of iris, or or had a yellow halo iris as pollen
donner, that had a orange parent. There is nothing in Highland Chief
that could produce these colours.Chuck Chapman-----Original
Message-----From: Betty Wilkerson <autmirislvr@aol.com>To: iris
<iris@hort.net>Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 3:35 pmSubject: Re: [iris] Re:
HYB: another terminology questionThe first year I was making crosses I
did a cross between Peach Spotand Highland Chief and also did the
reverse.  'Peach Spot' is a whiteiris with a peach spot on the fall.
Highland Chief is a beautiful redon yellow/cream plicata from Gibson.
Approximately, 30 each way.All 25+ of the PS X HC were approximately 18
inches tall with four bigblooms.  (Big Bertha even bloomed on fall.)
They all looked alike.They could have been clones from the same
rhizome.  But, they weren't.They were siblings.The ones with 'Highland
Chief' as pod parent produced a wide variety ofseedlings, all tall and
multi branched, some with triple teminals.  Acouple were peach selfs.
One was a bright orange self.  Several hadwhite falls with yellow
standards and fall rings.  It was one of themost educational and
intriguing crosses I've ever made.They definitely did not look like
siblings.  There were nocharacteristics in common.  The one batch was
VERY ugly, while theothers were all goreous.How come if they are
siblings?Betty WilkersonZone 6 KYautmirislvr@aol.com-----Original
Message-----From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>To: iris
<iris@hort.net>Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:56 amSubject: Re: [iris] Re:
HYB: another terminology questionFor sibling cross, it wouldn't make
any difference when  cross was madeor which parent was pod or which
pollen.Why pod and pollen parentwouldn't matter  is because the genes
controlling  major factors ofcolour and pattern are not located in
plastids or mitochondria.  As togetting plant characteristics it would
play a role. They are both sibs.So a sib cross to pull out  or evaluate
recessives will still work.But   the reverse cross do have different
genetics in terms of extra-nuclear  genes,  but are siblings.Chuck
Chapman-----Original Message-----From:Betty Wilkerson
<autmirislvr@aol.com>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent: Sat,Feb 23, 2013
11:13 amSubject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another
terminologyquestionSiblings are any seedlings that come from the same
cross.Example:'Treasured' X 'Renown'.  Treasured is the pod parent and
Renownis thepollen parent.A reverse cross would be 'Renown' X
'Treasure'.  Itis not the same.Technically . . . if Linda made the same
cross fiveyears later theywould be siblings.  They are still the same
cross.Eachseedlings in a pod is different, even if it can not be seen
withthenaked eye.  So, the fact that the seedlings in Linda's cross
wouldlookdifferent than the ones in my cross would be expected, even
thoughtheywould still (most) look like siblings.Does this
help?BettyWilkersonZone 6 KYautmirislvr@aol.com-----Original
Message-----From:Shaub Dunkley <miscaccts@bellsouth.net>To: iris
<iris@hort.net>Sent:Fri, Feb 22, 2013 5:21 pmSubject: [iris] Re: HYB:
another terminologyquestionHey group -Hope this formats correctly - was
unclear about howto postto the list.  I've lurked for some time on a
learning curve.Long curveto go but gotta stumble in somewhere.It would
seem being abletodistinguish between pod sibling and sibling separated
by time hasvalueworth conserving. Fraternal twins have less chance
ofbeingstep-sibling. Across time, particularly across years, there
ismorechance that records might have got mixed up, or field labels
gotmixedup and Daddy Joe then is not Daddy Joe now, etc. (same for
Mom).Mightnot a discriminating (subsequent) hybridizer want to
utilizesiblingknown to be from within the same pod if he wanted to
criticallyimprovechances of breeding within a certain gene pool?I'm
stillfiguring outto sleuth cross information in the registry but it
isapparent somehybridizers use numbering systems that are
fairlytransparent as to whoare pod sibling and who are across-time
sibling.Gold stars to them.BTW- are there better terms than pod
siblings andacross-timesiblings?Shaub DunkleyAsheville, North
CarolinaZ6b-----OriginalMessage----- From: Tom Waters <irises@telp.com>
To:iris<iris@hort.net> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:11 am Subject:
[iris]HYB:another terminology questionWhile we're at it, I'm interested
inhowpeople understand the term "sibling". I've seen it
sometimesapparentlyrestricted to two irises that came from the same pod
of seed,or atleast the product of the cross of two plants made by
thesamehybridizer in the same year. It seems to me that since the
twoparentsare clones, any irises with the same parentage are
siblings,even ifthe crosses that produced them were made many years or
milesapart bydifferent people. My own brother and sisters, for example,
areno lessmy brother and sisters for having been gestated separately
atdifferenttimes. ;) Tom Waters Telperion Oasis ~
www.telp.com/irisesCuyamungue,New Mexico, USA (zone
6)----------------------------------------From:"Tom
Waters"<irises@telp.com>Sent: Friday, February 22,
20137:22AMTo:------------------------------------------------------------

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