Re: Re: HYB: another terminology question
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: HYB: another terminology question
  • From: B* W* <a*@aol.com>
  • Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:17:33 -0500 (EST)
I've always been extra careful with my records, even the first year. The seedlings were all grown in one 3 X 25 foot bed.
Took both parents and a sampling of the seedlings, including the pale orange, as an educational exhibit to the local show one year. That is when I was told that the variation was normal between plicata x pink amoena. (not originally my term for Peach Spot.)
I always felt I could see the colors in HC so I didn't question that they came from it. Surely, it's impossible to know exactly what was in all the seedlings used to produce these two.
I've had some interesting things show up where I least expected over the past 28 years. 

Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 25, 2013 1:15 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology question
Not sure what you meant by "This is common"Striking colour differences in reciprical crosses?Orange seedlings?Joyce Terry Pattern?or?Peach Spot isn't an amoena, it is spot pattern, variegata spot to be specific. This is often confused with amoena, but they are different. If the amoena has a rim that doesn't have anthrocyanin, it likely is a variegata spot.There isn't any indication that Highland Chief carries the genetics to produce an orange, (two different recessive genes, tangerine and alternative yellow). and to expect them to combine with the recessive alternative yellow, with Pink Spot, which would have less then four copies of this gene.Chuck Chapman-----Original Message-----From: Betty Wilkerson <autmirislvr@aol.com>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent: Mon, Feb 25, 2013 11:20 amSubject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology questionI was told, by reputed hybridizers, that this is common in plicata andamoena crosses. Both irises have seedlings as parentage with no knowncultivars as parents. How can we know what the contributions of'Highland Chief?'Betty WilkersonZone 6 KYautmirislvr@aol.com-----Original Message-----From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 5:27 pmSubject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology questionAs colour genes are nuclear, and no modifications in colour fromextra-nuclear genes, I'd have to say stray pollen or some sort of othererror. The next thing I'd look at is soil or location differences.Therecan be conformation and size differences in reciprocal crosses, but Ihaven't heard of anything resulting in colour differences of thisdegree. I would expect this sort of range of colour that youdescribed, if Peach Spot was partially selfed, and partially crossed toa yellow halo type of iris, or or had a yellow halo iris as pollendonner, that had a orange parent. There is nothing in Highland Chiefthat could produce these colours.Chuck Chapman-----OriginalMessage-----From: Betty Wilkerson <autmirislvr@aol.com>To: iris<iris@hort.net>Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 3:35 pmSubject: Re: [iris] Re:HYB: another terminology questionThe first year I was making crosses Idid a cross between Peach Spotand Highland Chief and also did thereverse. 'Peach Spot' is a whiteiris with a peach spot on the fall.Highland Chief is a beautiful redon yellow/cream plicata from Gibson.Approximately, 30 each way.All 25+ of the PS X HC were approximately 18inches tall with four bigblooms. (Big Bertha even bloomed on fall.)They all looked alike.They could have been clones from the samerhizome. But, they weren't.They were siblings.The ones with 'HighlandChief' as pod parent produced a wide variety ofseedlings, all tall andmulti branched, some with triple teminals. Acouple were peach selfs.One was a bright orange self. Several hadwhite falls with yellowstandards and fall rings. It was one of themost educational andintriguing crosses I've ever made.They definitely did not look likesiblings. There were nocharacteristics in common. The one batch wasVERY ugly, while theothers were all goreous.How come if they aresiblings?Betty WilkersonZone 6 KYautmirislvr@aol.com-----OriginalMessage-----From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>To: iris<iris@hort.net>Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:56 amSubject: Re: [iris] Re:HYB: another terminology questionFor sibling cross, it wouldn't makeany difference when cross was madeor which parent was pod or whichpollen.Why pod and pollen parentwouldn't matter is because the genescontrolling major factors ofcolour and pattern are not located inplastids or mitochondria. As togetting plant characteristics it wouldplay a role. They are both sibs.So a sib cross to pull out or evaluaterecessives will still work.But the reverse cross do have differentgenetics in terms of extra-nuclear genes, but are siblings.ChuckChapman-----Original Message-----From:Betty Wilkerson<autmirislvr@aol.com>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent: Sat,Feb 23, 201311:13 amSubject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: anotherterminologyquestionSiblings are any seedlings that come from the samecross.Example:'Treasured' X 'Renown'. Treasured is the pod parent andRenownis thepollen parent.A reverse cross would be 'Renown' X'Treasure'. Itis not the same.Technically . . . if Linda made the samecross fiveyears later theywould be siblings. They are still the samecross.Eachseedlings in a pod is different, even if it can not be seenwiththenaked eye. So, the fact that the seedlings in Linda's crosswouldlookdifferent than the ones in my cross would be expected, eventhoughtheywould still (most) look like siblings.Does thishelp?BettyWilkersonZone 6 KYautmirislvr@aol.com-----OriginalMessage-----From:Shaub Dunkley <miscaccts@bellsouth.net>To: iris<iris@hort.net>Sent:Fri, Feb 22, 2013 5:21 pmSubject: [iris] Re: HYB:another terminologyquestionHey group -Hope this formats correctly - wasunclear about howto postto the list. I've lurked for some time on alearning curve.Long curveto go but gotta stumble in somewhere.It wouldseem being abletodistinguish between pod sibling and sibling separatedby time hasvalueworth conserving. Fraternal twins have less chanceofbeingstep-sibling. Across time, particularly across years, thereismorechance that records might have got mixed up, or field labelsgotmixedup and Daddy Joe then is not Daddy Joe now, etc. (same forMom).Mightnot a discriminating (subsequent) hybridizer want toutilizesiblingknown to be from within the same pod if he wanted tocriticallyimprovechances of breeding within a certain gene pool?I'mstillfiguring outto sleuth cross information in the registry but itisapparent somehybridizers use numbering systems that arefairlytransparent as to whoare pod sibling and who are across-timesibling.Gold stars to them.BTW- are there better terms than podsiblings andacross-timesiblings?Shaub DunkleyAsheville, NorthCarolinaZ6b-----OriginalMessage----- From: Tom Waters <irises@telp.com>To:iris<iris@hort.net> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:11 am Subject:[iris]HYB:another terminology questionWhile we're at it, I'm interestedinhowpeople understand the term "sibling". I've seen itsometimesapparentlyrestricted to two irises that came from the same podof seed,or atleast the product of the cross of two plants made bythesamehybridizer in the same year. It seems to me that since thetwoparentsare clones, any irises with the same parentage aresiblings,even ifthe crosses that produced them were made many years ormilesapart bydifferent people. My own brother and sisters, for example,areno lessmy brother and sisters for having been gestated separatelyatdifferenttimes. ;) Tom Waters Telperion Oasis ~www.telp.com/irisesCuyamungue,New Mexico, USA (zone6)----------------------------------------From:"TomWaters"<irises@te lp.com>Sent: Friday, February 22,20137:22AMTo:--------------------------------------------------------- ------------To sign-off this list, send email tomajordomo@hort.netwiththemessage textUNSUBSCRIBEIRIS------------------------------------------------------ ---------------To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net majordomo@hort.net withthemessagetext UNSUBSCRIBEIRIS---------------------------------------------------------- -----------To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with themessagetext UNSUBSCRIBEIRIS---------------------------------------------------------- -----------To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with themessagetext UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS--------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with themessage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS--------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with themessage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS 

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