Re: HYB: an idea of dosages...

christian foster <flatnflashy@yahoo.com> wrote:
  hmmm, missing... why yes.... usually stamen.... hey what if a flat is a 'female' plant. It is noted that flat is often pollen sterile... WHITE PARASOL I believe being the only one that sometimes has pollen...or was it FLOPSY. 
  ---If there is only one flattie with pollen, I'd use that flattie on all I had, at least once, in hopes of getting more flatties with pollen.  I'd have to know if that would work.  Plans from then on would depend on those results.
  At the same time, I'd also try pollen of the related non-flatties, to get more flatties.  And I'd do some wider crosses to broaden the genetics of the flatties.

thinking on the fly here.... if a flat is a female then... well, lessee here... there are Y related traits in animals/humans.... 

Hey does anyone know anything about the genetic structure? I mean in plants is there a difference in the DNA strand between male and female plants? Like there is between the Y male chromosome and the S female in humans?
  ---Iris don't have Y chromosomes.  Sorry.  Few plants do.  Even those plants like spinach and asparigus with seperate male and female plants will only have a few linked genes contoling male vs. female.
  Geneally male sterility is due to a single gene, generally recessive, and generally DNA analysis shows it is just lacking a gene required to make pollen.
  When male sterility is due to a coplete lack of anthers, it is often due to a mutation in a gene that make anthers, or even the structure the anther developes from, not one that specificly makes the pollen.
  In flatties, so I have read, the standards or what would have been standards, usually become falls, complete with beards.  Sounds to me like a gene that triggers a change in developement (by turning off genes that make standards and turning on genes that make falls) and that change turns off anther developement.  My guess.

To make sense... maybe having something to do with tetra pliody(ousity?) it would almost have to be that something is doubled... Almost to a one flats usually include direct sibling crosses. 
  ---That's another reason to do the male-fertile flat with any other flat.  That would let you see if the flats were homozygous, and if not you'd see segregation in such a cross.  
  Alternatively, you could pollinate a pollenless flattie with pollen from a pollen parent of another.  Bet rid of some inbreeding.
  I supose it is too much to hope that the inbreeding is the cause of the male-sterility, not the flatness.
   
   
  Wonder if there could be a connection... like maybe flats are the bridge between diploid and tetraploid.... 
  ---To me, sounds unlikely, not impossible, that flats would be such a bridge.  Seems like it would be coincidense if true.  
  Could be, that these flats are due to loss of a stretch of DNA and that stretch of DNA also carried a gene that blocked compatiblity between diploids and tetraploids.  That would be such a coincidense.
  Tetraploidy could be related to flats if the gene(s) involvewd were leathal when homozygous, but simple 1:1 ratio isn't enough to trigger flatness.  Then a 3:1 could.  Seems unlikely to me.  Just my guess, such genes are rare.

Hey! I know who would know!! new lurker guy!! . o O ( I really should pay better attention to names.)

but I only have one..... I think one of my cvs is marked as diploid in my note.......

Christian
ky
--- It seems that there is an arilbred, named Clematis or something, that is is flat.  If in fact my memory is correct, then it would be amazing that the genes for flat in TBs came together with an unknown gene for flat in arils  I'll have to look into that.  If such an arilbred exists, then what I think about this would be altered. And I'd have to admit I'm wrong and drop put of this group in shame.  (that's a joke, OK?)
  Walter (new lurker guy)
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