Re: Re: HYB: Pink: calculating probabilities

Betty W comments:
"I can handle 1/6 or maybe even 1/36, after all I'm the person that's
planted
approximately 150 seedlings from the same cross!But, when the odds get
beyond 1/36, even I have to question my sanity!  If it's  something that
just can't
happen because of a genetic 'block' (for lack of a  better way to state it)
then I don't want to waste my time on this path."

Betty, I might comment that what is difficult in one generation can be done
quite a lot easier in two, three or four.  Take for example Keith Keppel's
red-bearded plicatas and plicata-amoenas, or his red and pink bearded blues.
None of those happened in one or two generations, particularly the ones with
quality.

If HAPPENSTANCE can throw reblooming seedlings, there is an entire family of
closely related pinks and other tangerine beardeds in an array around it.

In addition, there are quite a few listed in Sutton's catalog that have
tangerine beards (or breed them) that rebloom, although many of those are
somewhat warmer climate rebloomers than KY.  There should be a lot of
rebloom potential in t-bearded sorts, as the very lines from which
rebloomers come most strongly, if I remember the family lines correctly, are
those which t-bearded sorts have also come.

If I had your objectives, I'd be tempted to take the best of your
rebloomers, all factors considered, and start making crosses with them and
*any* t-bearded sorts.  Pinks can emerge from any of those, but the best
ones will come from things that are themselves pink.  I suspect you are
already doing this, and all it takes is to keep making crosses among the
seedlings and back to either side.

Rebloom is so complex in its genetic makeup it boggles the mind.  Vigor,
disease resistance, lack of heat or drought dormancy, rate of increase,
ability to form out of season bloom---add all that to the recessive nature
of good form, branching, tangerine beards, etc., etc., and one has their
work cut out for them.  Still, progress on any front takes persistence and
time.

If any of your own rebloomers either have tangerine beards or breed them,
those are the ones that will give you pink rebloomers first.  Also, I note
several other posts, including Colleen Modra's, suggesting some varieties to
try.  Some of Suttons' were suggested, although their climate is far from
KY/TN zone 6.

It doesn't take knowledge of genetic ratios to do what you want to do.  It
takes a lot of compost making, back-bending and hoeing, let alone the
tweezer and seed handling involved.  Pinks that rebloom anywhere should be
of some value, I would think.  But your own KY rebloomers bred to pinks,
then bred back to both parental lines and intercrossed should start bring
the various characteristics together into the same pot.  Then it just takes
numbers--lots of babies.

Neil Mogensen  z 7  Reg 4  western NC mountains

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