Re: HYB:Meta-genes-

I'm not familiar with term Meta-Gene but did a quick search on SCIRIS and didn't find anything. There is a Meta analysis of genes that can be conducted on any specific plants to see what genes are influening a specific trait. If there is a refference to Meta-gene could you post it?
There is a lot of Transposons genes segments in the chromosomes . These are residual genetic codes that are left over from evolution. They can be up to 98% of the genetic material in plants. These used to be called "junk" DNA, but no longer are called junk as they have a function.. They are turned off from functioning by methylization. During times of stress these can be randomly de-methylated, allowing them to be expessed. Kind of a backwards evolution to find past genetic strategies that worked in the past. This is random, not specifically , adressed to the particular stress. Thus randomly some offspring can be better addapted to the new stress. I suspect that this is the information that Bob is reffering to.
The fact that certain cultivars are more prone to polypetal is a genetic trait for certain. I find that it is usually the first few blooms, when the plant has more plant energy. Much the same way space-age iris will produce better and more consistent appendigs on first blooms. Polypetals can certainly can be influenced by cold weather which interferes with bloom development.
I had pursued this poly petal trait briefly a few years ago, and it can certainly can be developed further by crossing plants that do this more consistently. I gave all my breeding stock to someone who was more interested in pursuing this. 

Chuck Chapman

       Re: [iris] HYB:Meta-genes-
       [iris] OT:  2008 AIS Photo Contest
       Re: [iris] HYB:Meta-genes-
----------------------------------------------------------------------y are part of the RNA as 
well.
Then, perhaps I am seeing meta genes expressed in my garden in the form of these irises which bloom polytepal. This expression, the extra/absent parts, is often labeled as "frost damage". When I posted last month, my intention was to say..."Hey wait a minute, this behavior is too consistent, at least in 
these particular plants, to be dismissed as "frost damage.""  I'm saying
there's too much variation in the expression of "frost damage". Perhaps there is a distinction between meta-gene, frost activated, polytepal and "frost 
damage".

What if these cultivars that bloom polytepal when it frosts are
saying..."Dude, I got your frost tolerant genes right here." Or, perhaps the 
frost activated polytepal signals some other gene complex, like maybe
flatties. <vbg>  No, you don't want the polytepal blooms, (especially
inconsistent ones) but if they are a step toward something else-- you have to 
take the step or miss the whole escalator.
Of course Robert is right... it would have to be tested to be confirmed. Does 
my thinking even sound sane?

Christian



In a message dated 6/19/2008 8:45:25 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
robertpries@embarqmail.com writes:

Betty;
A year ago I would have said that seed from stressed plants would not affect 
the genes of the seedlings. For many years the concept  of acquired
characteristics was pooh poohed in genetics. If the parents had good genes 
then they
should pass this on regardless of conditions.
Recently there has been discovered what are called meta genes. What these do is to attach to the normal genes and modify their effect. These meta genes are produced by the parents when undergoing certain environmental stimuli 
and
cane4 be passed on and endow there offspring with some potential to cope 
with
the same type of stress. Therefore if this situation applies in this case (which we have yet to know) then the viable seeds may well be better adapted then even the parents. Maybe Lysenko the Russian geneticist who destroyed 
Russian agriculture wasn't totally wrong.
Philosophically this may lead to a few speculations. Perhaps a cross made in a harsher environment may produce better adapted progeny then the same cross made in an idyllic environment.----Bob Pries ( just getting settled in NC, 
already  planting, but still unpacking the furniture).

- ----- Original Message  -----
From: autmirislvr@aol.com
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Wednesday,  June 18, 2008 4:25:31 PM (GMT-0600) America/Chicago
Subject: [iris]  HYB:CULT

Several times in the past, we've discussed the health of the  pod parent
as it relates to the seedlings.

Many of us have had  several months of conditions not favorable to
irises.  Freeze,  drought, freeze, freeze, heat.

These plants have been stressed big  time.

Can we expect decent seedlings from the pods we have   (assuming the
parents are good,) or will their poor conditions doom these  babies to
poor genes?

Will the good genes kick in even if the  conditions were poor?

Betty W.
Bridge In Time Irises
KY
Zone  6

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fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:30:21 -0700
From: "K. Loberg" <iris.loberg@comcast.net>
Subject: [iris] OT:  2008 AIS Photo Contest
Just a reminder to those who may be thinking of sending photos to the 2008 Photo Contest.... the deadline is June 30th. The application is on the AIS 
web site and several region websites.
I'm looking forward to seeing wonderful photos!
Kitty Loberg
AIS Photo Contest Chairman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:37:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Pries  <robertpries@embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] HYB:Meta-genes-
Christian: I think you have a logical argument. My specialty is plant taxonomy and plant ecology and so my knowledge of genetics is limited and so much has changed. I can not stress how valuable it is for gardeners to be collecting observations and discussing them. Of course it takes many many observations before any hypothesis can begin to be accepted, but it is important to conjecture so the thoughts can be refined or even disproved.
Individual plants show abilities to adapt to conditions. I do not think we know how this works. We can propose many hypotheses. In the Midwest, Iris recieved from more benign climates on the West Coast do not always do well unless they are aclimatized by letting them dry out before planting. This may have little to do with genetics. But generally once aclimatized they tend to grow well from year to year.
Sudden changes in temperature do not allow the usual protective responses that will occur if the change is gradual. Purple base leaf color is a response to cool temperatures and high light intensities. In climates with long cool springs some Iris will develop totally purple leaves not just at their base whereas the same plant may be totally green in a warmer climate. Even though this trait may show different degrees of expression depending on climate it appears the trait is not lost just by growing plants in warmer climates. But then again perhaps it may vanish in their grandchildren. I do not think this has really been investgated. I would tend to believe it would probably persist as a latent trait.
It is often hard to sort out the effects of conditions on plants without experimentation. I love miniature plants and have grown many alpine plants. Plants growing in this zone are usually miniatures of plants at lower elevations. If you transplant these treasures into a garden at lower elevation Some species grow into full size plants much like their lower elevation relatives, whereas other species retain their dwarf habit. Without doing a trial it is impossible to predict which plants have a genetic makeup that predisposes them to dwarfness and which plants are only dwarfed by the effect of physiology and climate. Both types of species have had many generations in which to adapt, yet only some have adapted genetically.
I certainly don't know whether flat Iris could have developed due to environmental stress but it is an interesting hypothesis.--Bob 


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "christian foster" <flatnflashy@yahoo.com>
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:53:52 PM (GMT-0600) America/Chicago
Subject: Re: [iris] HYB:Meta-genes-

Robert, et al,
Please forgive me, I know I'm very self absorbed. I have to constantly remind myself that other people do things that take them away from the computer.
It was not my intention to say "I already said that." but I suppose I sounded 
that way.  I was hoping instead that "meta genes" was a name for my
speculation.

You (Robert Pries) said that meta genes are produced under environmental
stressors and modify the normal expression of genes. You did not specify if these genes are produced in the gametes or if they are part of the RNA as 
well.
Then, perhaps I am seeing meta genes expressed in my garden in the form of these irises which bloom polytepal. This expression, the extra/absent parts, is often labeled as "frost damage". When I posted last month, my intention was to say..."Hey wait a minute, this behavior is too consistent, at least in 
these particular plants, to be dismissed as "frost damage.""  I'm saying
there's too much variation in the expression of "frost damage". Perhaps there is a distinction between meta-gene, frost activated, polytepal and "frost 
damage".

What if these cultivars that bloom polytepal when it frosts are
saying..."Dude, I got your frost tolerant genes right here." Or, perhaps the 
frost activated polytepal signals some other gene complex, like maybe
flatties. <vbg>  No, you don't want the polytepal blooms, (especially
inconsistent ones) but if they are a step toward something else-- you have to 
take the step or miss the whole escalator.
Of course Robert is right... it would have to be tested to be confirmed. Does 
my thinking even sound sane?

Christian



In a message dated 6/19/2008 8:45:25 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
robertpries@embarqmail.com writes:

Betty;
A year ago I would have said that seed from stressed plants would not affect 
the genes of the seedlings. For many years the concept  of acquired
characteristics was pooh poohed in genetics. If the parents had good genes 
then they
should pass this on regardless of conditions.
Recently there has been discovered what are called meta genes. What these do is to attach to the normal genes and modify their effect. These meta genes are produced by the parents when undergoing certain environmental stimuli 
and
cane4 be passed on and endow there offspring with some potential to cope 
with
the same type of stress. Therefore if this situation applies in this case (which we have yet to know) then the viable seeds may well be better adapted then even the parents. Maybe Lysenko the Russian geneticist who destroyed 
Russian agriculture wasn't totally wrong.
Philosophically this may lead to a few speculations. Perhaps a cross made in a harsher environment may produce better adapted progeny then the same cross made in an idyllic environment.----Bob Pries ( just getting settled in NC, 
already  planting, but still unpacking the furniture).

- ----- Original Message  -----
From: autmirislvr@aol.com
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Wednesday,  June 18, 2008 4:25:31 PM (GMT-0600) America/Chicago
Subject: [iris]  HYB:CULT

Several times in the past, we've discussed the health of the  pod parent
as it relates to the seedlings.

Many of us have had  several months of conditions not favorable to
irises.  Freeze,  drought, freeze, freeze, heat.

These plants have been stressed big  time.

Can we expect decent seedlings from the pods we have   (assuming the
parents are good,) or will their poor conditions doom these  babies to
poor genes?

Will the good genes kick in even if the  conditions were poor?

Betty W.
Bridge In Time Irises
KY
Zone  6

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
To  sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
message text  UNSUBSCRIBE  IRIS

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
To  sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
message text  UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS






**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

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