iris@hort.net
- Subject: Re: iris DIGEST V1 #1084
- From: M* B* <a*@orange.fr>
- Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:32:53 +0200
Hello. . . just a "lurker" most of the time, not a regular contributor, but I feel that I must respond to Paul's remark about trial gardens and the implication of using such things (sorry, I'm only assuming that this is what you mean, Paul) as prerequisites to the official registration of iris cultivars with the American Iris Society. There were remarks about such a thing in one of the AIS Bulletins a few years back and I feel that I must say once again that, as a hybridizer, I do not agree with the idea of taking the decision to register irises out of the hands of the people who create them. This is an open door to less, not more, responsible behaviour on the part of hybridizers (as in: "Oh, well if someone else is going to decide for me anyway, then I don't have to bother to be so exacting") and there are many problems with requiring the passage of plants through a test garden in order to be granted access to registration. . . First of all, how many of us would honestly be willing to accept someone else's decision of "not registeration-worthy" regarding an iris that we truly believe is a good plant? This goes way beyond asking other hybridizers or knowledgeable friends what they think of the plant and then making up your own mind! Then there's the whole practical business about where would the test gardens be and who would run them---not to mention with what money. Finally, please spare a thought for those of us hybridizing iris outside North America! Since the AIS holds the register for the entire planet, would it then be fair to oblige "foreign originated" irises to jump through this extra hoop of trial gardens---which I'm imagining would be in the USA---in order just to have access to the registration process? It's already difficult enough for foreign originated plants to have access to the AIS awards system through exclusive introduction in North America for their first year on the market. It seems to me that even though some inferior plants may find their way onto the market, they won't last long there if their performance is poor. Also, remember that inbreeding, which is often the price one must pay for finding something new, can also produce plants that aren't as strong and it may take time to stabilise new patterns or colour combinations so that plant quality is also present. My two cents worth! Michele Bersillon Le 21 juin 2010 ` 00:42, iris DIGEST a icrit : > > > iris DIGEST Sunday, June 20 2010 Volume 01 : Number 1084 > > > > In this issue: > > Re: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) > Re: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) > [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings > RE: [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 18:42:04 -0400 (EDT) > From: Paul Archer <pharcher@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) > > I was speaking of proportion the way it relates to the overall look of the plant. Large or even medium sized flowers on short stalks are not that appealing. Well, maybe dainty ones stuck down there aren't much either. Some of the smaller ones can have short and wide foliage and have tall enough stalks to appreciate the flowers they hold up out of the foliage. The stalks may not fit the AIS Judges Handbook of standards for whichever class they fit into, but they should look nice just the same. Dainty flowers sticking way up in the air as high as your shoulder (I'm 6'3) are not that appealing either, intriguing yes, but worth the garden space? I had one of those, and no, it isn't. We're not even talking about flower form, color, haftiness at this point. This is far more general. > > I had a nice TB seedling once that had the grassiest foliage I had ever seen (about 1/2 inch wide top to bottom) and it its stalk was thin and short and strong. Darn it the flower was a neat carotenoid plicata almost the size of Silverado. I kept it for a while but in the end it simply passed that short grassiness on to its children and the whole lot and seedling got tossed. > > Yes, show bench type stalks are a goal in seedlings, but more important is the how the plant perfoms as a whole. It may have show bench stalks but that lower branch may not even show out of the leaves in the garden. > > If a plant touted as an improvement over its parent or grandparent that consistently dies over a two (or three) year period was obviosly a plant that was an improvement ... for the person who grew it. It simply may not have been tried in other regions before being Registered and Introduced. The trouble with Registration and Introduction is that most times they happen the same year. Why? I think we know why. But this is another topic that has been discussed before. > > A rethink on how Irises are Registered might be in order. Just simply knowing the parentage is enough (many don't even have that) and growing enough stock to sell probably should not be the only reasons to Register one. And we are back to the topic of Trial Gardens.... and actually using them for that purpose. > > > > - -----Original Message----- >> From: autmirislvr@aol.com >> Sent: Jun 20, 2010 4:10 PM >> To: iris@hort.net >> Subject: Re: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) >> >> Points of discussion: >> >> Hybidizers DO share both plants and pollen long before a new breakthrough hits >> the market. That is how children of said "wonder" hit the market so soon. >> Some of the plants used in breeding are never introduced--(sibling of blah, >> blah) >> >> Length of bloom season can be achieved in several ways. Substance is great. >> It's also possible to have stalks, within a clump, that initiate one at a time >> throughout the season, and the blooms on the stalk may also open one or two >> blooms at a time. It's possible for a mature iris clump to have many days, or >> possibly many weeks of bloom. A good show bench iris may not be a good garden >> iris based on the timing of individual blooms. >> >> Of course, rebloom is another method of extending bloom season! One of my >> favorites, but I'll take them all. >> >> Branching? Is this garden branching or show bench branching? A show branch >> must only shine on one day, whereas the garden variety must hold it's own >> against others for a much longer time period. This is especially true of tall >> bearded irises. >> >> I find myself looking for show bench branching on all of my seedlings although >> I know that my rebloomers will rarely make a show bench based on the timing of >> most iris shows. I'd be better off looking for branching that shows well in >> the garden, but old habits are hard to break. >> >> During my formative years as an iris hybridizer, I grew a beautiful Blue(ish) >> iris that was tall with a consistent branching problem. It always grew the >> middle branch at a quarter turn on the stalk rather than opposite sides of the >> branch! It was a gorgeous bloom but most felt it should never have been >> introduced, based on the branching deficiency. Yet, this iris would get a >> blue ribbon on the bench because it grew as introduced. >> >> Paul when you speak of proportion are you refering to both stalk and bloom >> proportion and/or balance? >> >> Maybe the main difference of opinions lies in bloom preference? Open >> standards or domed standards? Heavy haft marks or none at all? Pastel colors >> or heavily saturated dark colors? Ruffles, lace or tailored edges? Plicatas, >> selfs, bitones, etc.? I love variegatas! >> >> If I buy an iris that is touted as an improvement and it dies for me within 2 >> years, is it truly an improvement? Or should it be considered inferior? >> >> Which irises bred from Edith Wolford were truly an improvement over EW? >> Several may have been considered a success by their breeder/creator, depending >> on their goals! Use the same criteria with any of the other irises heavily >> used in breeding. >> >> For an Edith Wolford cross to be a success for me it would have to be as is, >> but healthy here in KY. It has height, color, branching (most of the time) >> and all other qualities I like! Unfortunately, it doesn't live here. Except >> in my huge pot, of course. It lives, but still doesn't bloom every year. It >> is still in some of my seedlings. It passes on the bitone effect, height and >> good branching in plants that live. Most seedlings also have triple >> terminals. Just because an iris bombs here doesn't mean it's children will >> do the same. >> >> Many of the Romantic Evening children appeal to me more than RE, but who can >> buy all 93 of them? (I also have children of RE, but it is long gone) >> >> There are many irises introduced each year that don't appeal to me, yet, I'm >> sure most furthered some goal of the hybridizer. It's quite possible that I'd >> say "ugh" to your (generic your) favorite iris, but that doesn't make them >> inferior. >> >> How about that beautiful pink iris that looks just like two dozen (hundred) >> other beautiful pink irises? Was it folly to introduce it? Or did it exhibit >> something special or new to the hybridizer? >> >> Just saying that much of what we see is simply "the eye of the beholder." >> This is one of the reasons for National Display Gardens and iris photos! >> >> >> Betty Wilkerson . . . thanks for your time. >> KY Zone 6 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---Original Message----- >> From: Paul Archer <pharcher@mindspring.com> >> To: iris@hort.net >> Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:44 pm >> Subject: Re: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) >> >> >> >> I personally select for plants with the following (since I breed TB's, MTB's, >> ntermediates and Arilbreds)... >> First off, each cross has a particular goal for a flower characteristic. If a >> lower meets that goal or something unique shows up then the following is >> valuated... >> -Flowers that have good bloom substance (more then two days of life). I would >> lways like 3 days but that is >> slim pickin's. >> Upright foliage >> Disease resistance (as well as blue-green foliage) >> Stalks that do not need staking >> Good branching (not as easy as it might seem) >> At least two increases to bloom size >> Proper proportion (regardless of class). >> Bud count of at least 8 with a goal of triple sockets and/or lower branches >> Rebloom if possible >> >> irst year seedlings are evaluated for color and general growth. The second >> ear is make it or break it unless foul weather has played a role in general. >> f any one or two of those qualities is missing in a seedlng (but the flower >> ust be exceptional) it is selected as breeding stock. Any more than two >> faults >> s usually tossed. I do have one plant that is an exception to that rule and I >> ill never, ever distribute it. Once I get what I want from it it will get >> ossed. >> Arilbreds are something else altogether and have their own set of issues, but >> imilarly judged. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: autmirislvr@aol.com >> Sent: Jun 20, 2010 12:14 PM >> To: iris@hort.net >> Subject: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) >> >> This is a side issue to the Limbo Seedling thread. >> >> So many things to consider. >> >> <<second class seedlings>> >> >> An improvement might be a taller specimen, more branches, longer bloom >> season, >> deeper colors, etc..What are your goals and how do they mesh with what the >> rest of us like? >> >> >> Would some of the hybridizers on this list please give us some idea of what >> they consider an advancement? What are your goals? What are you trying to >> improve in the irises you breed? Specifically, what would it take to be a >> "first class" seedling in your garden? >> >> Each hybridizer has their own goals. To an extent, an advancement or >> "better" >> iris is in the eye of the beholder. >> >> Feed Back, please! >> >> Betty Wilkerson . . . extremely fussy about colors and patterns. >> Bridge In Time Irises >> KY Zone 6 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dana Brown <ddbro@sbcglobal.net> >> To: iris@hort.net >> Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 8:56 am >> Subject: RE: [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings >> >> >> Paul, >> Just imagine how much worse it would be if all the seconds and culls >> ere floating around out there as well. If your "limbo" seedlings are >> etter than so many of the current intros, then kudos to you for being a >> iscerning hybridizer/irisarian!! Why would you want to lower your >> tandards at this point? >> As far as all the tracking and record keeping....well, given the >> umber of misnamed or no name iris already out there I guess we already know >> hat not everyone keeps good records. >> Bottom line for me as a hybridizer, no, I don't want to send my >> econd class seedlings out in public where they might get released into >> eneral population. >> Dana >> Dana D. Brown >> IS, ASI, MIS, RIS, SPIS, TBIS >> alevil Iris Gardens & Kennels >> ww.malevil-iris.com >> ubbock, TX 79403 >> one 7 USDA, Zone 10 Sunset >> dbro@sbcglobal.net >> Home of: >> errimac's Amarula CGC TDI >> H. Merrimac the Agean CD, RA, CGC, TDI >> >> ----Original Message----- >> rom: owner-iris@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of Paul >> rcher >> ent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 6:33 PM >> o: Iris chat forum >> ubject: [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings >> I agree with that as well. However, considering the sheer amount of >> egistered plants I have paid good money for and turned out to be complete >> rap for various reasons and most of my "limbo" seedlings surpass the ones I >> ought, and by that standard maybe I should be Registering a whole lot more. >> lso some Registered plants make very poor parents once I get seeds from >> hem, yet they were Registered by the Hybridizer anyway. The assumption >> hat a Registered plant is a worthy parent is mute. But sorry to burst your >> ubble but the danger of releasing poor plant has already been surpassed >> umerous times and is now and endemic problem, yet may great cultivars are >> oming from these very plants through selection efforts. The difference is >> he Hybridizer standard of which mine is very high. >> It could also be said that those "limbo" seedlings that would be released >> nto this proposed program would need to be kept track of by the purchaser >> nd Hybridizer and not released as a cultivar for the sheer sake of >> ropagation purposes unless it has been evaluated by numerous people, >> eedback reported on, and the decision made by the Hybridizer to remove it >> rom "limbo" list and actually Registered. Yes, that takes some work, but >> hat prevents the seedling being distributed under a false name or confusion >> nd is certainly no worse than distributing the Registered ones that I would >> ust as soon toss the second or third year I've seen them bloom. >> hat is likely the root cause of much of the problem we have occuring today. >> >> Original message:------- >> >> feel that there is danger in releasing to the public seedlings that though >> beautiful are not quite worthy of registration and introduction. >> irst: One goal as hybridizers should be to improve irises. If we allow >> ven slightly inferior cultivars to be diseminated-among the public, we are >> ot being faithful to that goal. Second: These nameless seedlings are >> ertain to become confused with look alike named varieties to the detriment >> f the named varieties and to the people who buy them misnamed. >> know we all have favorite seedlings like this. I always say, "I'll keep >> t until I need the room for something better". When I am excited about the >> better one, I find it doesn't hurt to let the lesser one go. >> rancelle Edwards >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> o sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the >> essage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> o sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the >> essage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> o sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the >> essage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS >> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:46:03 -0400 > From: "J. Griffin Crump" <jgcrump@cox.net> > Subject: Re: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) > > Betty writes: > "For an Edith Wolford cross to be a success for me it would have to be as > is, > but healthy here in KY. It has height, color, branching (most of the time) > and all other qualities I like! Unfortunately, it doesn't live here. > Except > in my huge pot, of course. It lives, but still doesn't bloom every year. > It > is still in some of my seedlings. It passes on the bitone effect, height > and > good branching in plants that live. Most seedlings also have triple > terminals. Just because an iris bombs here doesn't mean it's children will > do the same. > > Many of the Romantic Evening children appeal to me more than RE, but who can > buy all 93 of them? (I also have children of RE, but it is long gone)" > > We've discussed the theme of weak-growing irises many times before, but for > the benefit of our newer members, I'll mention that I have never been able > to keep Edith Wolford alive long enough here to make a cross, but its > progeny, Jurassic Park, grows well and has given me nice seedlings. > Similarly, Best Bet has never lasted more than 2 years here, but has given > me some introducers. Finally, Romantic Evening just struggles along here, > but has given me some of my best introductions and breeders. So, as Betty > says, there's more to consider than just how well an introduced plant grows > in a particular place. -- Griff > > Griffin's Den > http://www.pilmore.com/griffinsden/default.html > Zone 7 along the tidal Potomac near Mount Vernon, in Virginia > > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: <autmirislvr@aol.com> > To: <iris@hort.net> > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:10 PM > Subject: Re: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) > > >> Points of discussion: >> >> Hybidizers DO share both plants and pollen long before a new breakthrough >> hits >> the market. That is how children of said "wonder" hit the market so soon. >> Some of the plants used in breeding are never introduced--(sibling of >> blah, >> blah) >> >> Length of bloom season can be achieved in several ways. Substance is >> great. >> It's also possible to have stalks, within a clump, that initiate one at a >> time >> throughout the season, and the blooms on the stalk may also open one or >> two >> blooms at a time. It's possible for a mature iris clump to have many >> days, or >> possibly many weeks of bloom. A good show bench iris may not be a good >> garden >> iris based on the timing of individual blooms. >> >> Of course, rebloom is another method of extending bloom season! One of my >> favorites, but I'll take them all. >> >> Branching? Is this garden branching or show bench branching? A show >> branch >> must only shine on one day, whereas the garden variety must hold it's own >> against others for a much longer time period. This is especially true of >> tall >> bearded irises. >> >> I find myself looking for show bench branching on all of my seedlings >> although >> I know that my rebloomers will rarely make a show bench based on the >> timing of >> most iris shows. I'd be better off looking for branching that shows well >> in >> the garden, but old habits are hard to break. >> >> During my formative years as an iris hybridizer, I grew a beautiful >> Blue(ish) >> iris that was tall with a consistent branching problem. It always grew >> the >> middle branch at a quarter turn on the stalk rather than opposite sides of >> the >> branch! It was a gorgeous bloom but most felt it should never have been >> introduced, based on the branching deficiency. Yet, this iris would get a >> blue ribbon on the bench because it grew as introduced. >> >> Paul when you speak of proportion are you refering to both stalk and bloom >> proportion and/or balance? >> >> Maybe the main difference of opinions lies in bloom preference? Open >> standards or domed standards? Heavy haft marks or none at all? Pastel >> colors >> or heavily saturated dark colors? Ruffles, lace or tailored edges? >> Plicatas, >> selfs, bitones, etc.? I love variegatas! >> >> If I buy an iris that is touted as an improvement and it dies for me >> within 2 >> years, is it truly an improvement? Or should it be considered inferior? >> >> Which irises bred from Edith Wolford were truly an improvement over EW? >> Several may have been considered a success by their breeder/creator, >> depending >> on their goals! Use the same criteria with any of the other irises >> heavily >> used in breeding. >> >> For an Edith Wolford cross to be a success for me it would have to be as >> is, >> but healthy here in KY. It has height, color, branching (most of the >> time) >> and all other qualities I like! Unfortunately, it doesn't live here. >> Except >> in my huge pot, of course. It lives, but still doesn't bloom every year. >> It >> is still in some of my seedlings. It passes on the bitone effect, height >> and >> good branching in plants that live. Most seedlings also have triple >> terminals. Just because an iris bombs here doesn't mean it's children >> will >> do the same. >> >> Many of the Romantic Evening children appeal to me more than RE, but who >> can >> buy all 93 of them? (I also have children of RE, but it is long gone) >> >> There are many irises introduced each year that don't appeal to me, yet, >> I'm >> sure most furthered some goal of the hybridizer. It's quite possible that >> I'd >> say "ugh" to your (generic your) favorite iris, but that doesn't make them >> inferior. >> >> How about that beautiful pink iris that looks just like two dozen >> (hundred) >> other beautiful pink irises? Was it folly to introduce it? Or did it >> exhibit >> something special or new to the hybridizer? >> >> Just saying that much of what we see is simply "the eye of the beholder." >> This is one of the reasons for National Display Gardens and iris photos! >> >> >> Betty Wilkerson . . . thanks for your time. >> KY Zone 6 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---Original Message----- >> From: Paul Archer <pharcher@mindspring.com> >> To: iris@hort.net >> Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:44 pm >> Subject: Re: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) >> >> >> >> I personally select for plants with the following (since I breed TB's, >> MTB's, >> ntermediates and Arilbreds)... >> First off, each cross has a particular goal for a flower characteristic. >> If a >> lower meets that goal or something unique shows up then the following is >> valuated... >> -Flowers that have good bloom substance (more then two days of life). I >> would >> lways like 3 days but that is >> slim pickin's. >> Upright foliage >> Disease resistance (as well as blue-green foliage) >> Stalks that do not need staking >> Good branching (not as easy as it might seem) >> At least two increases to bloom size >> Proper proportion (regardless of class). >> Bud count of at least 8 with a goal of triple sockets and/or lower >> branches >> Rebloom if possible >> >> irst year seedlings are evaluated for color and general growth. The >> second >> ear is make it or break it unless foul weather has played a role in >> general. >> f any one or two of those qualities is missing in a seedlng (but the >> flower >> ust be exceptional) it is selected as breeding stock. Any more than two >> faults >> s usually tossed. I do have one plant that is an exception to that rule >> and I >> ill never, ever distribute it. Once I get what I want from it it will get >> ossed. >> Arilbreds are something else altogether and have their own set of issues, >> but >> imilarly judged. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: autmirislvr@aol.com >> Sent: Jun 20, 2010 12:14 PM >> To: iris@hort.net >> Subject: [iris]:HYB:Goals:Preferences(was Limbo Seedlings) >> >> This is a side issue to the Limbo Seedling thread. >> >> So many things to consider. >> >> <<second class seedlings>> >> >> An improvement might be a taller specimen, more branches, longer bloom >> season, >> deeper colors, etc..What are your goals and how do they mesh with what the >> rest of us like? >> >> >> Would some of the hybridizers on this list please give us some idea of >> what >> they consider an advancement? What are your goals? What are you trying >> to >> improve in the irises you breed? Specifically, what would it take to be >> a >> "first class" seedling in your garden? >> >> Each hybridizer has their own goals. To an extent, an advancement or >> "better" >> iris is in the eye of the beholder. >> >> Feed Back, please! >> >> Betty Wilkerson . . . extremely fussy about colors and patterns. >> Bridge In Time Irises >> KY Zone 6 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dana Brown <ddbro@sbcglobal.net> >> To: iris@hort.net >> Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 8:56 am >> Subject: RE: [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings >> >> >> Paul, >> Just imagine how much worse it would be if all the seconds and culls >> ere floating around out there as well. If your "limbo" seedlings are >> etter than so many of the current intros, then kudos to you for being a >> iscerning hybridizer/irisarian!! Why would you want to lower your >> tandards at this point? >> As far as all the tracking and record keeping....well, given the >> umber of misnamed or no name iris already out there I guess we already >> know >> hat not everyone keeps good records. >> Bottom line for me as a hybridizer, no, I don't want to send my >> econd class seedlings out in public where they might get released into >> eneral population. >> Dana >> Dana D. Brown >> IS, ASI, MIS, RIS, SPIS, TBIS >> alevil Iris Gardens & Kennels >> ww.malevil-iris.com >> ubbock, TX 79403 >> one 7 USDA, Zone 10 Sunset >> dbro@sbcglobal.net >> Home of: >> errimac's Amarula CGC TDI >> H. Merrimac the Agean CD, RA, CGC, TDI >> >> ----Original Message----- >> rom: owner-iris@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of Paul >> rcher >> ent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 6:33 PM >> o: Iris chat forum >> ubject: [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings >> I agree with that as well. However, considering the sheer amount of >> egistered plants I have paid good money for and turned out to be complete >> rap for various reasons and most of my "limbo" seedlings surpass the ones >> I >> ought, and by that standard maybe I should be Registering a whole lot >> more. >> lso some Registered plants make very poor parents once I get seeds from >> hem, yet they were Registered by the Hybridizer anyway. The assumption >> hat a Registered plant is a worthy parent is mute. But sorry to burst >> your >> ubble but the danger of releasing poor plant has already been surpassed >> umerous times and is now and endemic problem, yet may great cultivars are >> oming from these very plants through selection efforts. The difference is >> he Hybridizer standard of which mine is very high. >> It could also be said that those "limbo" seedlings that would be released >> nto this proposed program would need to be kept track of by the purchaser >> nd Hybridizer and not released as a cultivar for the sheer sake of >> ropagation purposes unless it has been evaluated by numerous people, >> eedback reported on, and the decision made by the Hybridizer to remove it >> rom "limbo" list and actually Registered. Yes, that takes some work, but >> hat prevents the seedling being distributed under a false name or >> confusion >> nd is certainly no worse than distributing the Registered ones that I >> would >> ust as soon toss the second or third year I've seen them bloom. >> hat is likely the root cause of much of the problem we have occuring >> today. >> >> Original message:------- >> >> feel that there is danger in releasing to the public seedlings that though >> beautiful are not quite worthy of registration and introduction. >> irst: One goal as hybridizers should be to improve irises. If we allow >> ven slightly inferior cultivars to be diseminated-among the public, we are >> ot being faithful to that goal. Second: These nameless seedlings are >> ertain to become confused with look alike named varieties to the detriment >> f the named varieties and to the people who buy them misnamed. >> know we all have favorite seedlings like this. I always say, "I'll keep >> t until I need the room for something better". When I am excited about >> the >> better one, I find it doesn't hurt to let the lesser one go. >> rancelle Edwards >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> o sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the >> essage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> o sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the >> essage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> o sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the >> essage text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS >> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 19:33:28 -0400 (EDT) > From: Paul Archer <pharcher@mindspring.com> > Subject: [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings > > I agree with that as well. However, considering the sheer amount of Registered plants I have paid good money for and turned out to be complete crap for various reasons and most of my "limbo" seedlings surpass the ones I bought, and by that standard maybe I should be Registering a whole lot more. Also some Registered plants make very poor parents once I get seeds from them, yet they were Registered by the Hybridizer anyway. The assumption that a Registered plant is a worthy parent is mute. But sorry to burst your bubble but the danger of releasing poor plant has already been surpassed numerous times and is now and endemic problem, yet may great cultivars are coming from these very plants through selection efforts. The difference is the Hybridizer standard of which mine is very high. > > It could also be said that those "limbo" seedlings that would be released into this proposed program would need to be kept track of by the purchaser and Hybridizer and not released as a cultivar for the sheer sake of propagation purposes unless it has been evaluated by numerous people, feedback reported on, and the decision made by the Hybridizer to remove it from "limbo" list and actually Registered. Yes, that takes some work, but that prevents the seedling being distributed under a false name or confusion and is certainly no worse than distributing the Registered ones that I would just as soon toss the second or third year I've seen them bloom. > That is likely the root cause of much of the problem we have occuring today. > > > > Original message:------- > > > I feel that there is danger in releasing to the public seedlings that though > beautiful are not quite worthy of registration and introduction. > First: One goal as hybridizers should be to improve irises. If we allow > even slightly inferior cultivars to be diseminated-among the public, we are > not being faithful to that goal. Second: These nameless seedlings are > certain to become confused with look alike named varieties to the detriment > of the named varieties and to the people who buy them misnamed. > I know we all have favorite seedlings like this. I always say, "I'll keep > it until I need the room for something better". When I am excited about the > better one, I find it doesn't hurt to let the lesser one go. > Francelle Edwards > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 08:56:27 -0500 > From: "Dana Brown" <ddbro@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: RE: [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings > > Paul, > Just imagine how much worse it would be if all the seconds and culls > were floating around out there as well. If your "limbo" seedlings are > better than so many of the current intros, then kudos to you for being a > discerning hybridizer/irisarian!! Why would you want to lower your > standards at this point? > As far as all the tracking and record keeping....well, given the > number of misnamed or no name iris already out there I guess we already know > that not everyone keeps good records. > Bottom line for me as a hybridizer, no, I don't want to send my > second class seedlings out in public where they might get released into > general population. > > Dana > > Dana D. Brown > AIS, ASI, MIS, RIS, SPIS, TBIS > Malevil Iris Gardens & Kennels > www.malevil-iris.com > Lubbock, TX 79403 > Zone 7 USDA, Zone 10 Sunset > ddbro@sbcglobal.net > > Home of: > Merrimac's Amarula CGC TDI > CH. Merrimac the Agean CD, RA, CGC, TDI > > > - -----Original Message----- > From: owner-iris@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of Paul > Archer > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 6:33 PM > To: Iris chat forum > Subject: [iris] Re: Limbo Seedlings > > I agree with that as well. However, considering the sheer amount of > Registered plants I have paid good money for and turned out to be complete > crap for various reasons and most of my "limbo" seedlings surpass the ones I > bought, and by that standard maybe I should be Registering a whole lot more. > Also some Registered plants make very poor parents once I get seeds from > them, yet they were Registered by the Hybridizer anyway. The assumption > that a Registered plant is a worthy parent is mute. But sorry to burst your > bubble but the danger of releasing poor plant has already been surpassed > numerous times and is now and endemic problem, yet may great cultivars are > coming from these very plants through selection efforts. The difference is > the Hybridizer standard of which mine is very high. > > It could also be said that those "limbo" seedlings that would be released > into this proposed program would need to be kept track of by the purchaser > and Hybridizer and not released as a cultivar for the sheer sake of > propagation purposes unless it has been evaluated by numerous people, > feedback reported on, and the decision made by the Hybridizer to remove it > from "limbo" list and actually Registered. Yes, that takes some work, but > that prevents the seedling being distributed under a false name or confusion > and is certainly no worse than distributing the Registered ones that I would > just as soon toss the second or third year I've seen them bloom. > That is likely the root cause of much of the problem we have occuring today. > > > > Original message:------- > > > I feel that there is danger in releasing to the public seedlings that though > > beautiful are not quite worthy of registration and introduction. > First: One goal as hybridizers should be to improve irises. If we allow > even slightly inferior cultivars to be diseminated-among the public, we are > not being faithful to that goal. Second: These nameless seedlings are > certain to become confused with look alike named varieties to the detriment > of the named varieties and to the people who buy them misnamed. > I know we all have favorite seedlings like this. I always say, "I'll keep > it until I need the room for something better". When I am excited about the > > better one, I find it doesn't hurt to let the lesser one go. > Francelle Edwards > > ------------------------------ > > End of iris DIGEST V1 #1084 > *************************** > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the > message text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS-DIGEST --------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the message text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS
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