Re: test gardens
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: test gardens
  • From: R* P* <r*@embarqmail.com>
  • Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:40:55 -0400 (EDT)
Betty; as i understand Pauls' idea I do not think he is requiring any mandate. There are lots of things i would love to mandate. For example that every registration be avvomapied with pictures not just of the floer but the clump and that they be displayed on the wiki. Bit I know that will not work. You can not force people to do something even when it is within their best interest. Of course I argue, cajole, and lecture, but mandating does not work. Particaipation in a test garden system must be voluntary. If results are reported and published they may have a significanr effect. But the data must also be rational. Sometimes I see arguments saying this hybridizers plants do not grow. Yry I have hear a number of people say they had no problem with that hybridizers plants until they read those posts. We must be very careful in what we actually can substantiate. It is often easy for this group, or others to get on a tear about about a particular plant and yet others in their area who are less vocal report no problems. Postive results are really more important than negative and are obviously more substantiated.

----- Original Message -----
From: autmirislvr@aol.com
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 4:04:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [iris] test gardens

<<what is being released for sale and ultimately will have a long term impact
of on the genome of the Iris itself and promote the Society activities as
well.>>

Paul, I'm going to simply state a couple of points for consideration.  This is
not intended as negative or anti-anything.  Simply, discussion and POV.

Some of us are concerned that there aren't enough young/younger hybridizers
joining the quest for new irises.  Maybe we're misreading the situation, but
it's a serious concern for some.  Some iris lovers/growers think the breeding
process is long and complicated so they don't want to get involved.  When
reading the archives, I would think that many people would be convinced that
it's very complicated and something THEY could never do, when it can be,
truly, a very simple process.

It's been my goal (and others) to promote hybridizing as a fun and exciting
process.  It's my wish that we, collectively, do nothing to scare off new
hybridizers, especially not rebloom breeders!   Everyone should grow at least
ONE row of seedlings!  ;-)  (soap box)

As the system exists, there is a process for filtering the bad irises out of
the AIS system.

1) Various people register and offer thousands of irises for sale each year.
No one buys them all.
2) Hybridizers use whatever they choose as breeding material.  This is where
the filter belongs (in my opinion.)  Serious hybridizers will do their
research.  Casual hybridizers simply cross what catches their attention in
their own garden.  Beautiful things sometimes result from this plan!  You
(general you) might not agree with what I use in my program but I assure you I
have a reason for everything I use.  (Me or other hybridizers.)
3)  What criteria are people using when they buy irises?  When a hybridizer
accidentally uses an inferior plant in their breeding program, and it's genes
are expressed in the children, why do people buy them?

New developments are hard to share if there is not some accepted level of
"inferiority."  Hybridizers take these "imperfect" cultivars, add them to
their lines, and SELECT a slightly more perfect cultivar.  At least this is
the goal.  Awe, goals!

In my part of the country, there are hybridizer's irises that the locals won't
touch with a ten foot pole.  They have a reputation as producing things that
won't grow in our area.  Yes, people do talk.

Dr. Raymond Smith told me that I was the only person he knew that made out
their purchase list from the R & I's!  I still do.  The online register is my
favorite tool, but I buy the paper backs each year before they're back from
the printer.

Not talking awards here, but . . .

DYKES and other awards:    A long gone iris friend once told me, "You can
always tell who is going to win the Dykes.  Just count the number of people in
the hybridizers entourage at the National."  I'm not saying this is true, but
it's a thought.

Can we not mandate anything that makes it harder for us to recruit new
hybridizers or new members?

Betty Wilkerson
Bridge In Time Iris Garden
KY Zone 6







-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Archer <pharcher@mindspring.com>
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:48 am
Subject: Re: [iris] test gardens


See, you already do something like what I'm suggesting and a much more
positive
tance this time than your first email (which to be honest rather got my dander
p).  Thank you.
I don't really have a problem with someone Registering a seedling in the
atabase.  It helps us to understand something about the genetics and potential
f a line.  My issue is the distribution (for sale primarily) of poorly
onstituted plants. Apparently there are many on this list who agree and want
to
ctively participate in changing this.  if someone wants to distribute a plant
imply of their good will for free there is not much I can do about that.  It
is
ossible that they subject this particular plant through the rigors of this
roposed process before doing so.  It might simply remain a seedling not a not
et a name.  that might be a preferred way to classify them as having gone
hrough testing. But trying to get everybody to do that or make the AIS endorse
uch a notion is unlikely I know.  I'm simply trying to have a greater impact
on
hat is being released for sale and ultimately will have a long term impact of
n the genome of the Iris itself and promote the Soci!
ety activities as well.


I have absolutely no objection to test gardens and trialling as long as they
emain a hybridizer's tool to help them decide what plants might eventually be
orthy of registration and then perhaps introduction.  However, such decisions
hould remain with the hybridizer.  It should be remembered that, until an iris
s actually offered for sale (i.e. introduced), it remains a seedling:   even
if
egistered, it is *still* a seedling albeit a named one.  Sure, perhaps this
akes up a little bit of space in the R&I, but is it really a problem that
eople sometimes register plants that don't end up commercialised?

I regularly send plants out to both the Munich and Florence international iris
ompetitions, though I do find that it's more useful to me to send my plants to
unich since they offer an point evaluation after both two years and three
years
rowth.  I feel that Florence is more of a lottery, though perhaps useful in
the
ense that it is a different climate both from Munich and my own garden
(central
rance).  I haven't yet participated in the trials held in Great Britain,
though
 will be able to now that I'm a member of the BIS, so that will be still
nother climate to test under.  I'm pleased to be able to say that one of my
lants actually won the gold medal at Munich last year for the second year of
udging.  Now, here is a case where the actual decision to name a plant or not
sn't quite the hybridizer's decision because the competition rules stipulate
hat those plants placing in the top three must then be registered!  It may
ever be marketed though, this hardy iris! !
 !
 Possibly it deserves to be, but it's. . . a white self and, as someone
pointed
ut earlier on speaking of "beautiful pink irises that look like hundreds of
ther beautiful pink irises", does the iris world need another white self?  But
 digress. . .

There's nothing wrong with trialling; it's just another tool and, as long as
ne keeps in mind the caprices the weather is capable of and which could
nfluence the performance of the plants, something to be taken advantage of and
sed to test seedlings.

All the best,

Michele Bersillon

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