Re: REF: copyright theft

>As far as the analogy of coming and digging from your
>garden....it seems to me you have put the stuff in a container on a
>public highway, out for public consumption, and then demanded payment
>when they used it?

Char, that's exactly what I would have done *if* I had posted my photos 
to a "free graphics" site, but that's simply not the case. To expand the 
analogy, let's liken the posting of photos to a website/forum/mailing 
list to a hybridizer who sends his seedlings to be guested at iris 
conventions and meetings.  The irises remain the property of the 
hybridizer, regardless of their location or the number of people who 
enjoy them, until and unless the hybridizer relinquishes ownership.  
Similarly, photos/articles/artwork/etc. posted to various internet 
locations remain the property of the copyright holders until and unless 
such copyright is relinquished.

>  If you have photos that you feel are that valuable,
>maybe you should keep it to yourself

Would you also tell a hybridizer not to guest his irises so they won't 
tempt dishonest people into thievery?  I prefer to think that for every 
handful of people who steal my photos for their own profit, there are 
thousands more who enjoy them as the virtual glimpses into my iris garden 
that they are intended to be.  I imagine you invite people into your 
garden during bloom season.  This is my way of doing the same.  

>Personally,  I don't think you should offer it and then demand
>satisfaction if someone stops to admire it or shares it.

I post photos specifically because I want people to admire and enjoy 
them.  I never have and never would "demand satisfaction" from those who 
do.

>People who want to make money should consider other ways.

Indeed they should.  That's exactly my point.  If people want to make 
money off my photos, they should not be stealing them off a 
forum/website/mailing list.  They should either negotiate with me for the 
commercial use of my photos or create their own photos.  I do not post my 
photos online in order to make money off them, and I don't expect them to 
be stolen for that purpose. 
>
>I wonder if that point of view will make the courtesy acknowledgement of
>something a risk or liability instead of a compliment.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here, but a courtesy 
acknowledgement should always be preceded by the acquisition of 
permission for the use of materials not created and owned by oneself.

> Maybe list owners
>like John need to consider making the "free sharing" of information and
>photos a prerequisite to posting? Or go to a pay per view if they'd
>rather have that option.

We're coming at this from different directions.  You're talking about 
sharing, which is what I and everyone else do when we post materials on 
the web.  I have shared my iris FAQs, articles, and photos with a number 
of non-profit, iris-related publications - bulletins, newsletters, 
websites - and have never requested nor expected one iota of 
compensation. I have given away hundreds of irises to online and 
real-world friends and neighbors - again for no compensation.  Sharing 
isn't a problem for me, and it isn't the issue at hand. 

Taking is the issue. If I post a photo to my website or to any other 
non-free-graphics avenue and someone takes it and republishes it 
elsewhere without my permission, that's copyright infringement, plain and 
simple, and it's not all right with me.  Weren't we all taught as 
children to ask before taking?  That's what copyright protection is all 
about, on a somewhat more adult basis.  If you want to take something 
from its source, ask.  It doesn't have to be any more complicated than 
that if we just remember the basic rules of courtesy.

>I could have totally misunderstood your post too Laurie but I'd sure like
>to know if that is really what you meant.

I hope I have clarified the matter for you, Char. 

Happy irising,

Laurie


-----------------
laurief@paulbunyan.net
http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
normal annual precipitation 26-27"
slightly acid clay soil

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