Re: Invasive or not?

I am in Charlottesville, Virginia at the moment and
here Melia azederach is considered a weed tree. But it
rains here all summer, and is *very* hot and humid. I
am attending the Historic Landscape Institute which is
held at Monticello (the home of Thomas Jefferson), and
the University of Virginia. Jefferson planted Melia in
the area of his estate he called "The Grove" , along
with Aspen (Populus sp), Magnolia tripetala, and
Catalpa bignoniodes amongst other trees. I've rarely
seen it used in the Bay area, but here in Virginia it
is a common fast growing small tree which was once
planted as an ornamental but has naturalized widely in
the southern U.S. I suspect it is only weedy in these
sorts of summer wet and hot places. Brooklyn Bot
Garden, for instance, lists it as non-invasive in
their area of New York.

The fruit is poisonous to many mammals, and has been a
problem for livestock and children in the
south-eastern U.S. 

Best regards,

Deborah Lindsay (who is looking forward to returning
to blissfully cool-summer Oakland, California!)

--- Annie Hayes <annieh@sonic.net> wrote:
> Dear Medit folks,
> I guess  I am asking  3 questions:
> 1)  Should I sell/ not sell them?
> 2) What if a landscaper wants to plant one in an
> urban backyard like San
> Francisco?  Is it still considered unethical to sell
> them one?
> 3) Will  the birds carry the seeds -or how far can
> they fly before they have
> to poop? Ha Ha. Is this a real concern?
> Actually I just googled Melia -poison & birds and
> found that the seeds are
> considered toxic to birds. Well now, will I be
> poisoning birds?!  Or do the
> birds know better?
> Right now , I feel rather safe about the Melia ( tho
> I will wait for further
> comments)  but am wavering on the Retama.
> 
>     Thanks, Annie
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Seals" <gardenguru@yahoo.com>
> To: <kk@kozminski.com>
> Cc: "MeditPlants" <medit-plants@ucdavis.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 10:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Invasive or not?
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the further clarification KK.
> >
> > I stand corrected.
> >
> > Although, your clarification does confirm the
> point I
> > was (awkwardly) trying to make:
> >
> > that the plant is listed only as HAVING POTENTIAL
> to
> > become invasive or expand or whatever word they
> use. I
> > did go to your marked Cal website and there was,
> sure
> > enough, a note about the speices.  But it's NOT on
> any
> > of their true weed lists.
> >
> > I didn't try Googling for the Fallbrook Naval
> Weapons
> > Station.  But it wouldn't have improved my memory.
>  I
> > didn't know it then -- sounds like it's something
> that
> > wouldn't have received much publicity, if you know
> > what I mean.  Now I know.
> >
> > One of only two plants that I'd ever seen of this
> > species was, indeed, in north San Diego County.  A
> > great bollowy specimen on a slope on the east side
> of
> > Hwy 5.  It had been there many years when I first
> saw
> > it and that was 28 years ago.  I think it's gone
> now
> > but during it's many years there, I never saw
> > seedlings of it nearby.
> >
> > Believe it or not, I am an avid proponent of
> watching
> > out for potential weeds (watch out you sneaky
> > international-seed-by-mail-or-suitcase people).
> >
> > But the reality is, there's an awful lot of plants
> > that have naturalized locally in many parts of
> > California.  Perfect conditions, I'm sure, exist
> > somewhere in this state for almost every
> Mediterranean
> > climate plant to become a pest.
> >
> > Is this really the question Annie is asking?
> >
> > Joe
> > --- Krzysztof Kozminski <kk@kozminski.com> wrote:
> > > First, many thanks to Annie for her most
> considerate
> > > approach!
> > >
> > > On Saturday, June 14, 2003, at 07:29 PM, Joe
> Seals
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Just a clarification:
> > > >
> > > > This species is NOT on the Red Alert page of
> the
> > > > CalEPPC.
> > >
> > > Yes it is. If you looked at the provided URL:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.ucanr.org/ceppc/Pest_Plant_List/Red_Alert.htm
> > >
> > > you would find it's the tenth one down from the
> top.
> > >
> > > > It's on their "Species with potential" list.
> > >
> > > Which happens to be what the Red Alert list is.
> It
> > > says so right at the
> > > top of the aforementioned page:
> > >
> > > Red Alert: Species with potential to spread
> > > explosively; infestations
> > > currently restricted
> > >
> > > Red Alert list are NOT the worst invasives like
> star
> > > thistle, pampas
> > > grass, or scotch broom; the real baddies sit on
> list
> > > A, somewhat less
> > > bad ones on list B, and potential baddies on the
> Red
> > > Alert list.
> > >
> > > > That list says it was "First noted at
> Fallbrook
> > > Naval
> > > > Weapons Station, San Diego Co..." and found
> only
> > > in
> > > > "San Diego County".
> > > > I used to live in San Diego (25 years worth)
> and I
> > > > don't remember a "Fallbrook Naval Weapons
> > > Station".
> > > > Hmmm?
> > >
> > > If you tried googling for it, you'd find it is
> the
> > > east portion of Camp
> > > Pendleton.
> > >
> > > > It's also not on any of the CalDeptofAg lists
> (any
> > > one
> > > > of the many of them).
> > >
> > > Go to CalDeptofAg page at this URL:
> > >
> > > http://pi.cdfa.ca.gov/weedinfo/CYTISUSG2.html
> > >
> > > and search for "Retama". You'll find it towards
> the
> > > bottom of the page.
> > > The page says it is expected to expand its
> range.
> > >
> > > Hmmm?
> > >
> > > Overall, from the stuff available (very easily)
> on
> > > the web, it appears
> > > that it is not (perhaps not yet) an invasive
> problem
> > > plant.
> > >
> > > KK
> > >
> > > > Joe
> >
> > =====
> > Joe Seals
> > Santa Maria, California --
> > where the weather is always perfect
> > and my garden always has something blooming
> > and birds galore
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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> >
> >
> 



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