moist well drained soil

L* M*

Paul,
Nothing personal intended, but I have never thought of Minnesota as hot. 
I am in zone 7b, with a several winters under our belt with no snow/ice.
Our pansies here are planted in October and pulled up the first of May. We
cut grass beginning the end of March until just before thanksgiving.
What type of summers do you have, and what type of problems do you see?
Here in my area, moist well drained soil is a bog.
Would love to here more about you're gardening.
Laurie
North of Atlanta, GA 7b
***Love to learn from this list

>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:08:15 EDT
>From: Meum71@aol.com
>Subject: Re: moist well drained soil
>
>In a message dated 4/30/1999 11:08:00 AM Central Daylight Time, 
>SSaxton@Schwabe.com writes:
>
><< 
> How would someone define moist, well drained soil?  That seems to be an
> oxymoron to me!  Or maybe it's just an oxymoron in Oregon?!!
>  >>
>
>For us that live in hot climates like Minnesota, were the summers get hot
and 
>dry.
>Moist well drained soils would be those that stay moist to all summer long, 
>even during the dry periods but are not water logged when it rains for three 
>days straight.
>A humus rich soil with a light surface mulch is the best way to get this
type 
>of soil.
>If possible use a mixture of 50 percent humus 30 percent rich black dirt,
and 
>20 percent medium sized sand.
>If your sub soils are free draining use this mix to a depth on 6-8".
>If your sub soils are not free draining, use a raised bed and use the above 
>soil mixture to a depth of 10-15 inches.
>
>
>Paul
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:31:37 -0700
>From: "Saxton, Susan" <SSaxton@Schwabe.com>
>Subject: RE: Making a new bed.....
>
>Hi Robin:
>
>I have done this for years now.  If I'm willing to wait 6 months I layer:
>
>yard debris (nothing too woody) about 6 inches, cardboard, another 6 inches
>of yard debris and top with compost to speed up composting.  I do this in
>the fall, so watering is not a problem here in Oregon.  This was a main path
>me for and it got a little slick in the rain here that spring, so I topped
>with a little roughly finished compost and that helped until things dried
>out.
>
>If you were using finished compost, I'm not sure how deep I'd layer that --
>keep in mind the 6" of yard debris probably composted down to 2-3" at most.
>So with finished compost I'd probably put down 2-3 inches, cardboard, 2-3"
>again.
>
>Under a tree one fall, I just dumped a lot of my fall cleanup and spread
>compost on it early spring (like Feb. here in Oregon) and was able to plant
>that spring.  No cardboard.  But like under most trees, the grass was not
>thriving anyway.
>
>The "bed" over this tree is only about 6" probably deeper than it was
>originally and of course the tree is fine between all the goodies and extra
>summer water it steals from the water I'm trying to give the plants under
>there!
>
>In another bed, I did yard debris, cardboard, yard debris and did NOT top
>with compost and it's still not composted about 6 months later.  Lesson
>learned.  Just never got to it...
>
>I have read that you can just pile up a huge amount of compost and plant in
>that, but it sounds too rich to me for most plants.  If you could get some
>soil in there, I think it would work.
>
>Susan Saxton, zone 6b
>For mine is a little old fashioned garden where the flowers come
>together to praise the Lord and teach all who look upon them to do
>likewise.
>Celia Thaxter
>
>I AM in shape.  ROUND is a shape!
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robin Teets [r*@mail.ptd.net]
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 10:09 AM
>> To: perennials@mallorn.com
>> Subject: Making a new bed.....
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi everyone!!
>> 
>> I just love this list!!!  I learn so much!!  I know a 
>> couple of weeks ago someone was telling how to make
>> a new bed by layering compost and cardboard and letting
>> it sit for a year.  I would like to try this method
>> but I have two questions.  How much compost do you use??
>> And can this method be used under trees without 
>> smothering their root system???
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge and time....
>> Robin
>> 
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:58:43 -0800
>From: Nan Sterman <nsterman@mindsovermatter.com>
>Subject: RE: moist well drained soil
>
>>How would someone define moist, well drained soil?  That seems to be an
>>oxymoron to me!  Or maybe it's just an oxymoron in Oregon?!!
>
>I'll take a whack at this one -- dig a hole about a foot deep, fill it with
>water and see how long it takes to drain.  Most references I know say that
>if it drains within a day, it's well-drained.  If it takes longer, its not.
>How's that for scientific???  By the way, my soil drains in about 15
>minutes.
>
>Nan
>**********
>'''''''''''''''''''''''
>Nan Sterman
>San Diego County California
>Sunset zone 24, USDA hardiness zone 10b or 11
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 99 12:08:19 -0800
>From: elle <elle@europa.com>
>Subject: RE: hardy lavenders
>
>>Gosh Elle, we're neighbors.  It was a very wet winter, but all of my
>>lavender survived.  Do you amend your soil or is it pure, soggy, Oregon
>>clay?
>hi back susan..this was in a raised bed and well mulched over winter..I 
>bought hubby a chipper a few years ago, we we lost a bunch of trees and 
>it just made sense to chip, also we were digging out brambles and trying 
>to haul the dead killer sticks to the dump..so we chipped them too..so 
>the bed is, I  well amended and I also compost into it in the spring.
>snip
>> I put in about 10
>>plants of Hidcote lavender (15").  
>I have a similar situation but don't want to spend big bucks on lav that 
>isn't going to make it..where did you get your Hidcote?
>>The thing I like about lavender as an edger is you can mow it!  
>this sounds wonderful..and just what I want,
>Also want to edge a new rose bed that just got tilled up outa good ole 
>clay..I'm going to a friend on Cooper MT who has horses next week and get 
>a load of horse and straw for it and then take my cultivator to it 
>again..we are on a Lawn Reclamation Project!
>elle
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 99 12:14:37 -0800
>From: elle <elle@europa.com>
>Subject: Roses list??
>
>Hi all..wondering if anyone is on or knows of a roses listserve, such as 
>the one we are on?
>I am having a couple of rose related issues and in a conundrum as to want 
>is the right course.
>elle in oregon
>
> elle/cedar mill OR
> north end of the willamette valley
> USDA Zone 6
> Sunset Zone 8
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:20:46 -0500
>From: Bob Wiltshire <bwiltshi@williamsfoods.com>
>Subject: Lawn/Composting
>
>For the last two years I have been putting my zoysia grass clippings in a
>compost bin each mowing.  Last fall, some source I read suggested that
>*even* zoysia could be mulched and left in the lawn.
>
>Now it seems the stuff is more closely related to cellophane--it has not
>deteriorated at all in the lawn.  In fact, I have resigned myself to
>dethatching my lawn due to all of the clippings in it--sections are not
>green due to the mat on them.  I have not had this problem before this fall
>(but, then again, I always bagged it).
>
>In addition, the compost bin is *very* slow to deteriorate as well (made up
>as it is with lots of zoysia clippings).
>
>I am wondering if anyone has any personal experience with zoysia in the
>lawn or how quick it deteriorates?  I am sure it will eventually, but am
>wondering how I might help it along :).
>
>
>Bob, Linda, and "Jake Divine"
>NE Kansas
>Zone 6a
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:05:49 -0500
>From: Leslie McKendry-Smith <McKendrySmith@mbnet.mb.ca>
>Subject: Re: Why can't I grow Lily of the Valley?
>
>At 11:40 AM 1999/04/30 -0500, Bob wrote:
>>The two gardens I have had lily of the valley in were both in heavy clay
>>soil, on the north side.  The latest was planted in 1995--the first couple
>>of years they were a little slow to multiply, but especially since last
>>year they have gone crazy (too crazy).  Maybe patience is in order (I
>know...)
>>
>I planted mine in 1996 so that means that this is the year?!  
>
>Leslie
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:32:26 -0500
>From: Leslie McKendry-Smith <McKendrySmith@mbnet.mb.ca>
>Subject: Re: Why can't I grow Lily of the Valley?
>
>At 12:57 PM 1999/04/30 EDT, Paul wrote:
>>Do you remember the type of Liliy-of-the-valley you got.
>>The giant form spreads less speedily.
>>The common form for me increases very fast in all my soils, dry, moist, 
>>shade, part shade.  It does best in moist light sun.
>
>See! I didn't know that there was more than one type.  Mine have leaves
>about 5 inches long. They look like any other Lily of the Valley that I've
>seen.  Let's assume that they are the common form.  I guess that means that
>they need more sun.  Makes sense. The nicest patches that I've seen were
>growing under trees where they get filtered sun.
>
>
>>What makes me concerned is that the Hosta you planted did not make it.
>>It is not easy to kill a Hosta, the LAMIUM do not always take to an area.
> 
>A couple of people mentioned that they found it interesting that I couldn't
>grow hosta.  I thought that some detail might be in order.
>
>First, I forgot the mention that this area is a raised bed.  (That may be
>important) We built it in late spring, 1995.  By the time we had it
>finished there wasn't much to chose from in the garden centre except hosta.
> I planted 2 Frances Williams.  (They are listed as hardy to zone 3.)  They
>seemed quite happy throughout the summer but the winter of 1995/96 was
>majorly cold.  
>
>There was a period of over 3 weeks where the daytime high didn't go above
>- -20C and the low was never above -30C.  There were several days when the
>high/low wasn't even above -30/-40.  (Sorry for the C. temps.  I'm writing
>in a hurry and am too lazy to convert to F.  Suffice to say that -20C. is
>really cold.)  
>
>These conditions are more like zone 2 than zone 3.  That and being in a
>raised bed may have been what did in the hosta.  I really should give it
>another try but this time with a variety that is hardy to zone 2.
>
>>The LAMIUM like evenly moist but not wet soils with some filtered sun 
>>during the day.
>
>I didn't know that.  The soil was ok but the shade would have been to deep.
>
>Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
>
>
>Leslie
>zone 3 southern Manitoba
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:31:55 -0400
>From: "Bolt Upright" <berlin@wycol.com>
>Subject: Re: Roses list??
>
>> Hi all..wondering if anyone is on or knows of a roses listserve, such as 
>> the one we are on?
>
>https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/rose-list
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:38:44 -0700
>From: "Saxton, Susan" <SSaxton@Schwabe.com>
>Subject: RE: Roses list??
>
>Hi Elle, Susan again.
>
>I know of 3 rose lists that I am on, they are not particularly active.  I
>live in your neck o' the woods and have about 80 roses and have been growing
>them about 10 years in this climate.  E-mail me privately and perhaps I can
>help.
>
>ssaxton@schwabe.com
>
>Also, I got the Hidcote at Portland Nursery.
>
>Susan Saxton, zone 6b
>For mine is a little old fashioned garden where the flowers come
>together to praise the Lord and teach all who look upon them to do
>likewise.
>Celia Thaxter
>
>I AM in shape.  ROUND is a shape!
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: elle [e*@europa.com]
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 1:15 PM
>> To: perennials
>> Subject: Roses list??
>> 
>> 
>> Hi all..wondering if anyone is on or knows of a roses 
>> listserve, such as 
>> the one we are on?
>> I am having a couple of rose related issues and in a 
>> conundrum as to want 
>> is the right course.
>> elle in oregon
>> 
>>  elle/cedar mill OR
>>  north end of the willamette valley
>>  USDA Zone 6
>>  Sunset Zone 8
>> 
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>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:55:49 -0400
>From: "James N. Tilton" <tilton44@erols.com>
>Subject: OT - nursery orders/supply
>
>Hi all-
>I'm frustrated with a local nursery and wondering where to go from
>here.  Maybe someone familiar with nursery operations can help.
>
> Last year, they have told me they had ordered & would be getting in
>Nandina "Gulf Stream." Spring comes, they don't have it.  The same thing
>has happened this year! (and they had even told me what day it was to
>arrive).  The manager just said "we couldn't get it."  So, my question
>is, are things really out of their control as they make it out to be?
>Do nursery owners place orders for things that just aren't on the truck
>when the delivery day comes?  Or do I start spending my $$ at a
>different nursery?
>TIA
>Barb (southeastern PA, where 10 yards of mulch awaits me...)
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:20:05 -0700
>From: "Saxton, Susan" <SSaxton@Schwabe.com>
>Subject: RE: OT - nursery orders/supply
>
>Barb, in my area, Portland Nursery is primo and very reliable.  But it
>happens all the time.  They literally are at the mercy of the growers,
>truly.
>
>If I REALLY WANT SOMETHING, I mail order and pay the price to get what I
>want.
>
>Susan Saxton, zone 6b
>For mine is a little old fashioned garden where the flowers come
>together to praise the Lord and teach all who look upon them to do
>likewise.
>Celia Thaxter
>
>I AM in shape.  ROUND is a shape!
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James N. Tilton [t*@erols.com]
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 12:56 PM
>> To: perennials@mallorn.com
>> Subject: OT - nursery orders/supply
>> 
>> 
>> Hi all-
>> I'm frustrated with a local nursery and wondering where to go from
>> here.  Maybe someone familiar with nursery operations can help.
>> 
>>  Last year, they have told me they had ordered & would be getting in
>> Nandina "Gulf Stream." Spring comes, they don't have it.  The 
>> same thing
>> has happened this year! (and they had even told me what day it was to
>> arrive).  The manager just said "we couldn't get it."  So, my question
>> is, are things really out of their control as they make it out to be?
>> Do nursery owners place orders for things that just aren't on 
>> the truck
>> when the delivery day comes?  Or do I start spending my $$ at a
>> different nursery?
>> TIA
>> Barb (southeastern PA, where 10 yards of mulch awaits me...)
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:49:52 -0500
>From: Pat <pattm@execpc.com>
>Subject: Orange?
>
>I've begun the spring work on my *hot* garden - only reds, oranges and
>yellows allowed.
>
>What are your favorite orange perennials?
>- -- 
>Pat Mitchell
>zone 5 SE Wisconsin
>pattm@execpc.com
>"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
>nothing." 
>- -Edmund Burke
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:14:41 -0400
>From: Robin Teets <rteets@mail.ptd.net>
>Subject: RE: Making a new bed.....
>
>Dear Susan,
>
>Thanks so much for repeating the process for me.  I'll
>be trying it soon......
>
>I had a wonderful experience with a friend today.  Last
>fall she had ordered a collection of different daffodils
>from Daffodil Mart and we planted them.  I was not overly
>excited about having a hodge-podge of different plants
>jumbled up in one group - not exactly my taste - but she
>wanted it....  Anyway, today we looked at her bed of 
>flowers.  We must have spent 20 minutes looking at these
>daffodils because, since they were all different - we had
>to examine each flower individually.  There were more
>variations on daffodils than I had ever imagined!!!  It
>was wonderful really looking at each one in all it's 
>variation and trying to decide which one we liked best!!
>What an exquisite way to visit a garden and be with a
>friend.....
>
>Life is good......
>Robin
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:22:22 -0400
>From: "Denise A. Leonard" <dal@shaysnet.com>
>Subject: Re: Roses list??
>
>There is a rose list on mallorn.com  Hopefully there is enough information
>below that will help you subscribe.
>
>Denise Leonard
>
>This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your mallorn.com
>mailing list memberships.  It includes your subscription info and how
>to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list.
>
>You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or
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>
>In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such
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>the list (for example, rose-list-request@mallorn.com) containing just
>the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent
>to you with instructions.
>
>If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
>mailman-owner@mallorn.com.  Thanks!
>At 12:14 PM 4/30/99 -0800, you wrote:
>>Hi all..wondering if anyone is on or knows of a roses listserve, such as 
>>the one we are on?
>>I am having a couple of rose related issues and in a conundrum as to want 
>>is the right course.
>>elle in oregon
>>
>> elle/cedar mill OR
>> north end of the willamette valley
>> USDA Zone 6
>> Sunset Zone 8
>>
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>>
>Denise A. Leonard
>Tanstaafl Farm
>Greenfield, MA
>dal@shaysnet.com
>
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>------------------------------
>
>End of perennials DIGEST V3 #100
>********************************
>
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