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Re: planting preparation

For me it is a matter of economics. I can use Plateau at 4 to 6 ounces per
acre and eliminate all mowing. I figure it costs about $8 per acre per
mowing, including fuel, time, equipment costs, etc. Plateau at the above
rates costs from $9.36 per acre to $14.04. If I eliminate just 2 mowings
I've saved money. Most of the time it takes 4 or more mowings to keep the
foxtail and crabgrass in check. In addition, I don't have to make a return
trip to a clients planting, saving additonal time and money. Furthermore, I
can get a stand of grasses and some forbs faster, thereby creating customer
satisfaction because I have met a certain level of their expectation within
an acceptable time period.

Jef Hodges

----- Original Message -----
From: James C. Trager <jtrager@ridgway.mobot.org>
To: <prairie@mallorn.com>; <owner-prairie@mallorn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: planting preparation


> I'm not sure what all the fuss about controlling foxtail and
> crabgrass is about, since they are readily suppressed by several
> 4-6 inch mowings while the prairie plants get established (the first
> season or two). After that, the perennial vegetation and relatively
> undisturbed soil conditions cause them to diminish to virtually
> negligible levels naturally. Indeed, in my experience this applies
> to all the short-lived pioneer weeds of new prairie plantings except
> maybe the sweet clovers. Now perennial grasses and Eurasian legumes,
> those are something to worry about.
> James C. Trager
>
> On 24 Apr 00 at 10:25, Brett Roberts wrote:
>
> > Ms. Green,
> >
> > I think the ideas that were presented by others fit your
> > situation with one exception.  The formulation of glyphosate
> > (Roundup TM) that can be used adjacent to aquatic environments
> > is (Rodeo).  As many have stated, getting rid of the existing
> > vegetation is pivotal.  As you many already well know "getting
> > rid" of existing vegetation is easier said than done,
> > especially when the existing vegetation is comprised of
> > introduced, cool season perennials e.g. tall fescue, kentucky
> > bluegrass etc.  For this reason I would use a Rodeo spray
> > program to get a complete kill of the existing species.  I
> > would do this prior to any drastic tillage because of the
> > erosion hazard to the detention pond.  A very light disking to
> > stimulate regrowth of the existing species from the rhizomes
> > would be helpful.  A very light disking will break the thatch
> > so it can decompose but not leave the soil vulnerable to
> > erosion.  This will also stimulate the growth of the meristems
> > on the rhizomes that weren't killed by the previous
> > application of glyphosate.  Some have mentioned the use of
> > "Plateau"
> > as a post emergence treatment after the prairie species have
> > been planted.  It is a great tool.  The problem is that it
> > can't be used around water.  Since this isn't an option in
> > your case, the glyphosate program seems the most viable.  Once
> > you have killed the existing vegetation, you may want to
> > consider no-till planting your prairie species because
> > excessive tillage is going to cause erosion into the adjacent
> > detention pond.  Also by not tilling the soil into a fine
> > powder, you will avoid bringing more weed seeds to the surface
> > to compete with the new prairie.  In areas the have been
> > previously in turf, the weed(s) to be afraid of is crabgrass,
> > (Digitaria spp.).  In farm fields it is usually foxtails
> > (Setaria spp.).  I hope this helps.
> >
> > Brett Roberts
> > State Conservation Agronomist
> > USDA-Natural Resources Conservation Service
> > Champaign, Illinois
> >
> >
> > "Ruth A. Green" wrote:
> > >
> > > I have an area that we will be restoring to prairie that has just been
exotics
> > > and primarily hard fescue.  The area surrounds a retention pond.  I
would like
> > > your expert advise as to the best way to prepare the site.
> > > I am concerned about erosion and herbicide drift into the retention
pond.  This
> > > area is about 10 acres in size.
> > > I have access to tractors, plows, disks and spray equipment.  That is
not a
> > > problem.  Thanks for your input.
> > >
> > > "PrairieSource.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've been reading this thread on advice for planting and not seen
anyone
> > > > mention the use of Plateau herbicide, though Roundup has been
mentioned
> > > > freely. I've been using Plateau for 4 years now and can boast that I
can
> > > > establish native grass stands in one growing season with the weed
control
> > > > offered by this product. (Provided the weather cooporates)
> > > >
> > > > I particularly like a tank mix of Plateau and Roundup. Roundup
provides burn
> > > > down of the existing vegetation and Plateau provides some residual
weed
> > > > control. I've found, just enough weed control to allow the native
grasses
> > > > and labeled forbs a chance to get going before the weeds invade to
rob the
> > > > natives of their resources, water, light and nutrients.
> > > >
> > > > As most of you know, weed control is not the only factor in
establishing a
> > > > good stand. Seedbed preparation is important too. I belive it was
Mike
> > > > Anderson that made the all important point of removing the thatch or
litter
> > > > before planting. Critically important for successful no-till.
> > > >
> > > > Jef Hodges
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Robert Wernerehl <rwernere@midplains.net>
> > > > To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:51 PM
> > > > Subject: planting preparation
> > > >
> > > > > Hi folks,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a friend with a large field he wants to plant with a seed
drill
> > > > this
> > > > > fall. He mowed and sprayed last fall and looks like he got a
pretty good
> > > > > kill. There is a thick layer of thatch on the field right now. He
plans to
> > > > > spray again this summer if it greens up. Is there any point in
burning off
> > > > > the duff now, perhaps that it would better expose what is left
alive, so
> > > > it
> > > > > can be sprayed, or can it just wait until fall to burn it off
before
> > > > > planting? Any thoughts. Thanks much.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Wernerehl
> > > > > Barneveld, Wisconsin
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
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> James C. Trager, Ph. D.
> Shaw Arboretum
> P.O. Box 38
> Gray Summit MO 63039
> PH# 636-451-3512
> FAX 636-451-5583
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