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Re: planting preparation

Over the past few days there has been some excellent discussion on the
benefits as well as the potential risks of chemical use in establishing C4
grasses and native forbs. Most has centered on the effectiveness,
application rates and economics of the chemicals.
    With the assumption that part of the reason for planting this plant
community in the first place is habitat creation, I pose the following
question. How does the use of Imazapic (Plateau) and 2,4-D  impact wildlife
like birds, insects, mammals and reptiles and amphibians that are either
directly exposed or feed on treated areas? Has anyone done any research on
this?
    It appears that there are some real and tangible benefits to these
applications if done properly, what are the potential short  and long term
negative impacts?

Bob Kehres
POBox 443
Hiram, Ohio
330-569-7167
----- Original Message -----
From: PrairieSource.com <jef@prairiesource.com>
To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: planting preparation


> For me it is a matter of economics. I can use Plateau at 4 to 6 ounces per
> acre and eliminate all mowing. I figure it costs about $8 per acre per
> mowing, including fuel, time, equipment costs, etc. Plateau at the above
> rates costs from $9.36 per acre to $14.04. If I eliminate just 2 mowings
> I've saved money. Most of the time it takes 4 or more mowings to keep the
> foxtail and crabgrass in check. In addition, I don't have to make a return
> trip to a clients planting, saving additonal time and money. Furthermore,
I
> can get a stand of grasses and some forbs faster, thereby creating
customer
> satisfaction because I have met a certain level of their expectation
within
> an acceptable time period.
>
> Jef Hodges
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James C. Trager <jtrager@ridgway.mobot.org>
> To: <prairie@mallorn.com>; <owner-prairie@mallorn.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 8:32 AM
> Subject: Re: planting preparation
>
>
> > I'm not sure what all the fuss about controlling foxtail and
> > crabgrass is about, since they are readily suppressed by several
> > 4-6 inch mowings while the prairie plants get established (the first
> > season or two). After that, the perennial vegetation and relatively
> > undisturbed soil conditions cause them to diminish to virtually
> > negligible levels naturally. Indeed, in my experience this applies
> > to all the short-lived pioneer weeds of new prairie plantings except
> > maybe the sweet clovers. Now perennial grasses and Eurasian legumes,
> > those are something to worry about.
> > James C. Trager
> >
> > On 24 Apr 00 at 10:25, Brett Roberts wrote:
> >
> > > Ms. Green,
> > >
> > > I think the ideas that were presented by others fit your
> > > situation with one exception.  The formulation of glyphosate
> > > (Roundup TM) that can be used adjacent to aquatic environments
> > > is (Rodeo).  As many have stated, getting rid of the existing
> > > vegetation is pivotal.  As you many already well know "getting
> > > rid" of existing vegetation is easier said than done,
> > > especially when the existing vegetation is comprised of
> > > introduced, cool season perennials e.g. tall fescue, kentucky
> > > bluegrass etc.  For this reason I would use a Rodeo spray
> > > program to get a complete kill of the existing species.  I
> > > would do this prior to any drastic tillage because of the
> > > erosion hazard to the detention pond.  A very light disking to
> > > stimulate regrowth of the existing species from the rhizomes
> > > would be helpful.  A very light disking will break the thatch
> > > so it can decompose but not leave the soil vulnerable to
> > > erosion.  This will also stimulate the growth of the meristems
> > > on the rhizomes that weren't killed by the previous
> > > application of glyphosate.  Some have mentioned the use of
> > > "Plateau"
> > > as a post emergence treatment after the prairie species have
> > > been planted.  It is a great tool.  The problem is that it
> > > can't be used around water.  Since this isn't an option in
> > > your case, the glyphosate program seems the most viable.  Once
> > > you have killed the existing vegetation, you may want to
> > > consider no-till planting your prairie species because
> > > excessive tillage is going to cause erosion into the adjacent
> > > detention pond.  Also by not tilling the soil into a fine
> > > powder, you will avoid bringing more weed seeds to the surface
> > > to compete with the new prairie.  In areas the have been
> > > previously in turf, the weed(s) to be afraid of is crabgrass,
> > > (Digitaria spp.).  In farm fields it is usually foxtails
> > > (Setaria spp.).  I hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Brett Roberts
> > > State Conservation Agronomist
> > > USDA-Natural Resources Conservation Service
> > > Champaign, Illinois
> > >
> > >
> > > "Ruth A. Green" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have an area that we will be restoring to prairie that has just
been
> exotics
> > > > and primarily hard fescue.  The area surrounds a retention pond.  I
> would like
> > > > your expert advise as to the best way to prepare the site.
> > > > I am concerned about erosion and herbicide drift into the retention
> pond.  This
> > > > area is about 10 acres in size.
> > > > I have access to tractors, plows, disks and spray equipment.  That
is
> not a
> > > > problem.  Thanks for your input.
> > > >
> > > > "PrairieSource.com" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I've been reading this thread on advice for planting and not seen
> anyone
> > > > > mention the use of Plateau herbicide, though Roundup has been
> mentioned
> > > > > freely. I've been using Plateau for 4 years now and can boast that
I
> can
> > > > > establish native grass stands in one growing season with the weed
> control
> > > > > offered by this product. (Provided the weather cooporates)
> > > > >
> > > > > I particularly like a tank mix of Plateau and Roundup. Roundup
> provides burn
> > > > > down of the existing vegetation and Plateau provides some residual
> weed
> > > > > control. I've found, just enough weed control to allow the native
> grasses
> > > > > and labeled forbs a chance to get going before the weeds invade to
> rob the
> > > > > natives of their resources, water, light and nutrients.
> > > > >
> > > > > As most of you know, weed control is not the only factor in
> establishing a
> > > > > good stand. Seedbed preparation is important too. I belive it was
> Mike
> > > > > Anderson that made the all important point of removing the thatch
or
> litter
> > > > > before planting. Critically important for successful no-till.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jef Hodges
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Robert Wernerehl <rwernere@midplains.net>
> > > > > To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:51 PM
> > > > > Subject: planting preparation
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi folks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a friend with a large field he wants to plant with a seed
> drill
> > > > > this
> > > > > > fall. He mowed and sprayed last fall and looks like he got a
> pretty good
> > > > > > kill. There is a thick layer of thatch on the field right now.
He
> plans to
> > > > > > spray again this summer if it greens up. Is there any point in
> burning off
> > > > > > the duff now, perhaps that it would better expose what is left
> alive, so
> > > > > it
> > > > > > can be sprayed, or can it just wait until fall to burn it off
> before
> > > > > > planting? Any thoughts. Thanks much.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Wernerehl
> > > > > > Barneveld, Wisconsin
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
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> > James C. Trager, Ph. D.
> > Shaw Arboretum
> > P.O. Box 38
> > Gray Summit MO 63039
> > PH# 636-451-3512
> > FAX 636-451-5583
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> >
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