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Re: planting preparation

I can't answer about the use of 2,4-D but I can about Plateau.

American Cyanamid, producers of Plateau was required by the EPA to do a
series of stringent tests and experiments prior to the release of the
product, as are all chemical companies for new chemical products. It is a
non-restricted use product.

Plateau acts only on certain amino acids found in only plants. These amino
acids are not found in any other organisms, fungus, arthropods, fish,
amphibians, reptiles, cold or warm blooded animals. Research has shown that
Plateau had no effect on any of these organisms.

Plateau is categorized by the EPA as a class E compound, found to be
non-carcinogenic and its toxicity level "nearly like water".

The LD 50 is greater than 5000 ppm. Other common items with lower LD 50's
include aspirin, nicotine, table salt, chlorine plus others.

According to AmCy, a 150 lb. person would have to drink 1 quart of Plateau,
straight out of the jug, in one sitting, to have a 50% chance of dying.

In research done on grazing animals, 98% of the material consumed is
excreted in the urine within 24 hours of consumption in the same form as it
was ingested, meaning no breakdown occurred. The other 2% is excreted within
48 hours. There was no assimilation or accumulation of the chemistry in the
animals. Lactating animals showed no traces of the chemistry in their milk.

The effects, if any are likely to be indirect, say through the loss of a
host plant for food or the reproduction of a species. In my wildlife
plantings, that is why I choose to use between 4 and 6 ounces per acre. I
get just enough weed control to help with the establishment but  not so much
as to eliminate all weedy plants due to their desirable benefits to
wildlife.

Jef Hodges

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Kehres <rkehres@dvoice.com>
To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: planting preparation


> Over the past few days there has been some excellent discussion on the
> benefits as well as the potential risks of chemical use in establishing C4
> grasses and native forbs. Most has centered on the effectiveness,
> application rates and economics of the chemicals.
>     With the assumption that part of the reason for planting this plant
> community in the first place is habitat creation, I pose the following
> question. How does the use of Imazapic (Plateau) and 2,4-D  impact
wildlife
> like birds, insects, mammals and reptiles and amphibians that are either
> directly exposed or feed on treated areas? Has anyone done any research on
> this?
>     It appears that there are some real and tangible benefits to these
> applications if done properly, what are the potential short  and long term
> negative impacts?
>
> Bob Kehres
> POBox 443
> Hiram, Ohio
> 330-569-7167
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: PrairieSource.com <jef@prairiesource.com>
> To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 12:08 AM
> Subject: Re: planting preparation
>
>
> > For me it is a matter of economics. I can use Plateau at 4 to 6 ounces
per
> > acre and eliminate all mowing. I figure it costs about $8 per acre per
> > mowing, including fuel, time, equipment costs, etc. Plateau at the above
> > rates costs from $9.36 per acre to $14.04. If I eliminate just 2 mowings
> > I've saved money. Most of the time it takes 4 or more mowings to keep
the
> > foxtail and crabgrass in check. In addition, I don't have to make a
return
> > trip to a clients planting, saving additonal time and money.
Furthermore,
> I
> > can get a stand of grasses and some forbs faster, thereby creating
> customer
> > satisfaction because I have met a certain level of their expectation
> within
> > an acceptable time period.
> >
> > Jef Hodges
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: James C. Trager <jtrager@ridgway.mobot.org>
> > To: <prairie@mallorn.com>; <owner-prairie@mallorn.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 8:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: planting preparation
> >
> >
> > > I'm not sure what all the fuss about controlling foxtail and
> > > crabgrass is about, since they are readily suppressed by several
> > > 4-6 inch mowings while the prairie plants get established (the first
> > > season or two). After that, the perennial vegetation and relatively
> > > undisturbed soil conditions cause them to diminish to virtually
> > > negligible levels naturally. Indeed, in my experience this applies
> > > to all the short-lived pioneer weeds of new prairie plantings except
> > > maybe the sweet clovers. Now perennial grasses and Eurasian legumes,
> > > those are something to worry about.
> > > James C. Trager
> > >
> > > On 24 Apr 00 at 10:25, Brett Roberts wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ms. Green,
> > > >
> > > > I think the ideas that were presented by others fit your
> > > > situation with one exception.  The formulation of glyphosate
> > > > (Roundup TM) that can be used adjacent to aquatic environments
> > > > is (Rodeo).  As many have stated, getting rid of the existing
> > > > vegetation is pivotal.  As you many already well know "getting
> > > > rid" of existing vegetation is easier said than done,
> > > > especially when the existing vegetation is comprised of
> > > > introduced, cool season perennials e.g. tall fescue, kentucky
> > > > bluegrass etc.  For this reason I would use a Rodeo spray
> > > > program to get a complete kill of the existing species.  I
> > > > would do this prior to any drastic tillage because of the
> > > > erosion hazard to the detention pond.  A very light disking to
> > > > stimulate regrowth of the existing species from the rhizomes
> > > > would be helpful.  A very light disking will break the thatch
> > > > so it can decompose but not leave the soil vulnerable to
> > > > erosion.  This will also stimulate the growth of the meristems
> > > > on the rhizomes that weren't killed by the previous
> > > > application of glyphosate.  Some have mentioned the use of
> > > > "Plateau"
> > > > as a post emergence treatment after the prairie species have
> > > > been planted.  It is a great tool.  The problem is that it
> > > > can't be used around water.  Since this isn't an option in
> > > > your case, the glyphosate program seems the most viable.  Once
> > > > you have killed the existing vegetation, you may want to
> > > > consider no-till planting your prairie species because
> > > > excessive tillage is going to cause erosion into the adjacent
> > > > detention pond.  Also by not tilling the soil into a fine
> > > > powder, you will avoid bringing more weed seeds to the surface
> > > > to compete with the new prairie.  In areas the have been
> > > > previously in turf, the weed(s) to be afraid of is crabgrass,
> > > > (Digitaria spp.).  In farm fields it is usually foxtails
> > > > (Setaria spp.).  I hope this helps.
> > > >
> > > > Brett Roberts
> > > > State Conservation Agronomist
> > > > USDA-Natural Resources Conservation Service
> > > > Champaign, Illinois
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Ruth A. Green" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have an area that we will be restoring to prairie that has just
> been
> > exotics
> > > > > and primarily hard fescue.  The area surrounds a retention pond.
I
> > would like
> > > > > your expert advise as to the best way to prepare the site.
> > > > > I am concerned about erosion and herbicide drift into the
retention
> > pond.  This
> > > > > area is about 10 acres in size.
> > > > > I have access to tractors, plows, disks and spray equipment.  That
> is
> > not a
> > > > > problem.  Thanks for your input.
> > > > >
> > > > > "PrairieSource.com" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I've been reading this thread on advice for planting and not
seen
> > anyone
> > > > > > mention the use of Plateau herbicide, though Roundup has been
> > mentioned
> > > > > > freely. I've been using Plateau for 4 years now and can boast
that
> I
> > can
> > > > > > establish native grass stands in one growing season with the
weed
> > control
> > > > > > offered by this product. (Provided the weather cooporates)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I particularly like a tank mix of Plateau and Roundup. Roundup
> > provides burn
> > > > > > down of the existing vegetation and Plateau provides some
residual
> > weed
> > > > > > control. I've found, just enough weed control to allow the
native
> > grasses
> > > > > > and labeled forbs a chance to get going before the weeds invade
to
> > rob the
> > > > > > natives of their resources, water, light and nutrients.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As most of you know, weed control is not the only factor in
> > establishing a
> > > > > > good stand. Seedbed preparation is important too. I belive it
was
> > Mike
> > > > > > Anderson that made the all important point of removing the
thatch
> or
> > litter
> > > > > > before planting. Critically important for successful no-till.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jef Hodges
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Robert Wernerehl <rwernere@midplains.net>
> > > > > > To: <prairie@mallorn.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:51 PM
> > > > > > Subject: planting preparation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi folks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a friend with a large field he wants to plant with a
seed
> > drill
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > fall. He mowed and sprayed last fall and looks like he got a
> > pretty good
> > > > > > > kill. There is a thick layer of thatch on the field right now.
> He
> > plans to
> > > > > > > spray again this summer if it greens up. Is there any point in
> > burning off
> > > > > > > the duff now, perhaps that it would better expose what is left
> > alive, so
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > can be sprayed, or can it just wait until fall to burn it off
> > before
> > > > > > > planting? Any thoughts. Thanks much.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bob Wernerehl
> > > > > > > Barneveld, Wisconsin
> > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > James C. Trager, Ph. D.
> > > Shaw Arboretum
> > > P.O. Box 38
> > > Gray Summit MO 63039
> > > PH# 636-451-3512
> > > FAX 636-451-5583
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> >
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